I want to use BIAB as a backing track for my piano. However the the piano is not correctly tuned to C or even a semi tone below or above. It is somewhere between C and b flat. Is it possible to transpose a song in BIAB to a frequency rather than a real key? I know I can transpose by a semitone. But the piano is still out of tune to the new key. Obviously I could get the whole piano re tuned. But that is a last resort (cost). Thanks in advance
Firstly, BIAB does have MIDI tuning. If your soundcard supports this, and you are using a MIDI style (as opposed to a style containing Realtracks), it should be able to be tuned.
The option is found under "Options | GM Settings".
If you use Realtracks, it's still possible to tune. I just tried the following approach and it worked for me.
1. I downloaded a free pitch shifting VST from the below URL. It's called PitchProof and comes in 32-bit and 64-bit dll.
Noel, Your Pitch Shift information is a great tutorial in fact, and one that could do well in the tips and tricks section also? Trev
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
This sounds like a very useful utility. I often have audio files out of concert pitch and I take them into an audio editor to pitch shift. But this looks like it might do the job in real time.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Yes, I use Adobe Audition with a stereo or mono file. You can change pitch by any amount up to two hundred cents (a cent is one one-hundredth of the difference between two adjacent half-steps) with few artifacts.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I'll assume that the piano is a real wood and strings kind of piano.... because any midi piano is tune-able. The real wood and strings kind are harder to tune and certainly not something you do easily with a push of a button or two like a midi keyboard can do. You certainly want to be able to work from standard concert pitch... A-440 as most people these days have that as their standard. Nothing is as much of a pain in the butt as getting a file from someone and finding it's not tuned to A-440.
I'm not sure if BB can do this but I know for a fact that Melodyne Editor can. You do, however, need to have the polyphonic version. Many of the pitch editors that are free or inexpensive tend to be monophonic and work well for instruments that can only play a single note at a time and of course, voices. Even ME is a bit sketchy with some of the poly stuff I have tried to use it for.
If you're interested in doing recording for more than a one time thing, I would suggest that you look into purchasing a halfway decent midi keyboard. They can be had brand new for a couple hundred dollars and you can find them used for much less. Check the yard sales in your area. If it's piano you want, get one that has weighted keys for the "piano feel" they give. Also be sure it has touch sensitive keys.
Just my 2 cents on this topic
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/17/1903:12 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Here is a potential free workaround. Download the free Audacity and all the available effects. Load a single piano note into Audacity and use the effect Pitch Scaler to change the pitch. (I would use an inexpensive guitar tuner to bring the pitch in tune, in other words to A-440) Write down the Pitch Scaler number. Now bring in your piano track and convert it to A-440 using the Pitch Scaler and your number.
Yes this works with polyphonic tracks. You may have to increase the volume but the tempo stays the same.
Note that this method is not as good as Melodyne Editor. But if you piano is just a little off A-440 it just might work. Plus the price is right, especially if it does work.
good luck
OK, a random thought; Why does toilet paper need a commercial? Who's not buying it?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
When a real (wood&string) piano goes out of tune, it usually goes out of tune with itself also. In other words, tuning the recording to make middle C in tune will move other recorded notes just as much, but they may still be off from each other. Actually pretty likely. It's very rare a piano goes out of tune on every note in even amounts. Just something to consider in your decision.
If it's out of tune with itself that's pretty hard to correct with all the overtones and such that exist on a real piano recording.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
When a real (wood&string) piano goes out of tune, it usually goes out of tune with itself also. In other words, tuning the recording to make middle C in tune will move other recorded notes just as much, but they may still be off from each other. Actually pretty likely. It's very rare a piano goes out of tune on every note in even amounts. Just something to consider in your decision.
If it's out of tune with itself that's pretty hard to correct with all the overtones and such that exist on a real piano recording.
Piano's are not single strings for a note. Some of the low ones are, but as you move up you are playing 3 strings for each note struck. That's what gives a real piano it's timber and tone quality. You run into tuning problems, especially when the 3 strings per note are out of tune with each other.
Just think back to the sound you hear from the old western saloon pianos. (or the ones in the recreation rooms in many rest homes)
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
I still have my tuning hammers and felts for fixing pianos on the fly. A lost art, thankfully.
Matt, you're thankful that it's a lost art, or you're thankful that you've still got your tuning hammers and felts?
Or you're thankful that you don't need them anymore?
My Yamaha C5 certainly needs a little TLC (only every so often, though).
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Nice axe! You have it on a hardwood floor in a glass corner, it must sound really loud. Mine is in a similar location and i put a rug underneath it to dampen it. If i play to energetically it get very loud. I also learned to tune it myself, it's never simply evenly out of tune. I doubt the OP's idea will work.
Thanks everyone. The piano is wood & string. When purchased it was quite a bit off. So we got a piano tuner in. However he chose to "clean up the tuning" rather than tune it accurately. There was no pressure on him to do anything else. Just to make it sound OK. So it was a cheap tune as we did not know how much it would be used if at all. Now that we have progressed to BIAB for backing tracks we are paying the price. A proper tune will cost a bunch and so at the moment something to avoid if we can tune the backing tracks to match the piano.
You have given us plenty of things to try. We have Audacity and that seems to do the job so far. So thanks to all.
Madsy, you might consider a MIDI piano keyboard instead of investing further in the timber frame piano. There are some reasonable units available, with touch action (important for a piano), and it will be on concert pitch.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
It sounds as if your Piano tuner, tuned it to itself (not uncommon for home use), so with that in mind proving it has held that tune you may well get away with shifting your BIAB to match. Also as you say that Audacity seems to be able to do that it’s a fairly good sign that the piano is still in tune with its self, even if not in concert pitch. Have fun Mike
We were told be a professional piano tuner that my wife's piano is so old that it really shouldn't be tuned to concert pitch. There would be to much string tension on the old wood. Thus it is tuned to A 432Hz. If you know what Hz your piano is tuned to them maybe you can adjust your software to the same.
OK, a random thought; Why does toilet paper need a commercial? Who's not buying it?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Yes, the church that hires me to arrange and direct holiday services has an 1866 Steinway grand. The day after it’s tuned, it reverts back down a few cents. Right now we have it at 432. It sounds terrific and stays there. We just can’t play it along with the tracker organ. That’s at 441 and two-thirds (go figure). A whole new meaning to ‘chorus’.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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