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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
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OP
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I'm a little confused with the importance of the sound card in BiaB and in general with home audio stuff. My XP desktop uses the default, cheap integrated internal soundcard (Soundmax) and the output synth is simply the "Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth" in BiaB. The 2 PCI slots (I know, already dated technology) are currently in use, so if I purchased a new sound card, it would need to be external. Should I consider an audio interface like the M-Audio Fast Track Pro/Tascam, etc. so I can record my instrument into BiaB? I notice that the Fast Track Pro is also a "sound card". But what about the GM sounds that are attributes of the card - does an interface like the M-Audio come with that? If I am using an audio interface like the Fast Track Pro, does then the quality of the sound card still matter?If I did have a PCI slot available, it seems the "traditional" internal M-Audio 2496 soundcard would also function as both an interface (2 audio and midi inputs) and a sound card at the same time. As you can read I am confused just trying to sort this out, especially the relationship between "audio interfaces" and "sound cards"! 
WinXP Pro / BiaB 2010 / Fast Track Pro / Ketron SD2
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 238
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 238 |
Once you use an external Audio Interface (AI) such as TASCAM 144 MKII, then you just bypass the PC soundcard altoghether... You'll have to connect the speakers to the TASCAM and let Windows know in the Sound Setting to use TASCAM as the output speakers.
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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However, your synth will sound pretty much the same (GS wavetable)
An external soundcard may improve your audio recording (actual sounds) andthe quality of the sound at playback.. but your MIDI sounds will sound the same pretty much. Same sounds played thru better convertors..
Example- realtracks are audio, they may sound a 'little' better with new external soundcard.
A lot of BiaB tracks are midi, which is just instructional data. Those tracks play thru a synth to generate the actual sound (which is then sent to the soundcard output so you can hear it). WIth an external USB device you'll most likely be using the same synth to generate those sounds. SO, again, you may hear a 'little' difference in the sound at playback because of the better convertors, but it will still be the same cheesy (sorry) wavetable synth generating the sound.
External devices like the M-Audio do not usually come with the midi synth sounds (the GM part of your question).
Actually a LOT of internal soundcards don't come with sounds either, which is why there is the MSwavetable synth to begin with. They just use that one for free.
You should try the VSC synth that came with BiaB or maybe try the Forte synth for 30 days free trial (downloadable from this site) I think THAT will make a bigger difference for less $$ 'specially when the VSC is already owned, so free, and there are others out there with much better sounds.
Audio interfaces and soundcards are terms often used interchangably but the midi/audio definitions are most often misunderstood.
An audio interface is usually a step up from a basic soundcard in that it has better convertors (to change the sound from analog to digital and back) and also more convenient connections and inputs. Some include preamps that are much better than a 'soundcard' usually.
What instrument you trying to connect?
Maybe an audio interface will help you with those connections and recordings. But if you are using wavetable as the synth I just wanted to point out you can improve that part right away before investing in a soundcard.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 28
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OP
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Thanks for the info, that is very helpful.. I will be eventually connecting/recording an accordion. I have an FR7 which is an electronic accordion which I can use as a MIDI Controller or input it directly since it is also a sound module. I also have an acoustic accordion which is mic'd internally or I can use external mics on it. I'm thinking an AI like the TASCAM or Fast Track Pro might be the best bet here, since I can use MIDI, Line, or MICS to record the instrument.
I take your point with the built-in VSC synth. So I went to "MIDI/Audio Drivers setup" in BiaB, and selected "Roland VSC Dxi". However, it seems the sounds are the same as when I select the Microsoft wavetable synth.
I have a USB M-Audio KeyRig 49 Key keyboard hooked and set as the MIDI Input Driver, but it just puts out a generic (piano) sound on the onscreen keyboard and speakers when I play it, it does not respond to any changes I make in the Instrument selection.
Another odd thing, for fun I was able to check the "Use VST/DXi Synth" box and pull up the free Kore2 player, from which I liked the acoustic bass. However when I went back to the selected track in BiaB, it would play the acoustic bass fine, but I could not change it to anything else, the drop-down GM Sounds on the upper-left hand side of BiaB would have no effect. Learning, learning, learning...
WinXP Pro / BiaB 2010 / Fast Track Pro / Ketron SD2
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
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The microsoft synth is a poor cousin of the Vsc / or Dxi version. I think the sounds are very similar. Many of us have acquired a Ketron SD2 which PG music sells on this site. It's external, has zero latency, and has lots of extra sounds.
There is a huge learning curve. Once everything is setup and working the real fun begins! You have lots of options then. Recording is a new skill set. I suggest that if you can, defer learning that until you are done with the other stuff...
That said, if you find a good piece, master it, and want to do more than shoot a DVD with a camera, prepare for that part of the learning/fun. Then you can make a CD of your music and make your family buy it!
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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Go with the "Use DXi" button and the VSC DXi synth for now.
Some of the GM bank sounds are indeed the same as the ones in the microsoft software synth, although the VSC has deeper layers. Edirol did the samples for the microsoft synth and that's the reason for the similar sounds, they share the same sample "heritage".
BUT -- the DXi synth also supports Upper Banks and many more patches in either GM/GS and GM2 modes.
After you get going for a while and better understand the care and feeding of BiaB, you can try your hand at switching to one of the physical MIDI outputs and send the BiaB MIDI data to that MIDI accordian if it has a GM compat soundbank in it, see if it sounds any better to your ears or not.
Once you really get into the swing of things you may find that for certain tasks you will like hooking up the MIDI accordian to make quick work of entering notes on the Melody or Soloist track as MIDI by just simply Recording as MIDI what you play. Then you might want to switch to the real acoustic accordian to add your final playing to the accompaniment you created by recording the Acoustic to the Audio Track.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 28
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
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Posts: 28 |
Right, I see maybe why the acoustic Bass in the Microsoft synth sounds identical to the bass in the VSC DXi synth, Thanks. I'll stick with the VSC DXi synth and get the upper banks too. The Roland TTS 1 GM synth that comes with Cakewalk Music Creator 5 sounds good too, for $35. Actually sending output to the FR7 (Roland MIDI accordion) is possible but not recommended by Roland, it does not have GM compatible sounds and is meant to be more of an "input" instrument. So in my case I would record the audio output of the accordion as I am playing it live over a BiaB background. If I am step-entering or real-time entering a bass line or such into BiaB, I prefer to use the Keyrig Midi keyboard for that purpose. Not because I can't do it with the accordion, but because it is so much easier and quicker. Using the FR7, along with its attendant external expander box that is necessary for MIDI, is like donning an astronaut suit to enter MIDI data. I'm sure the folks at NASA would never, ever consider entering MIDI data without first putting on an astronaut suit, but I like to do it the easy way.  Here's my latest learning frustration: When I have the MIDI controller keyboard selected as an input device in BiaB, I would expect that with whatever part I have selected, then it's associated instrument, weather it is GM or VSTi sound (not RT of course), would be heard when I play, or hit any key on the keyboard. But this doesn't happen. (with BiaB playing back or not). It doesn't matter what I have selected as an instrument, the generic (piano or computer-speaker like) sound is output when I play on the keyboard. However during playback the correct patch will be assigned. Is this normal or can I fix that?
WinXP Pro / BiaB 2010 / Fast Track Pro / Ketron SD2
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 812
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 812 |
Hey Squeezbox,
If you put all the good information on this thread, you could make a great eBook from it! The problem is sorting everything out so that you understand how signal flow, Midi, Digital Audio, Interfaces, GM, etc work and apply to your situation. To keep this post short, try the following>
1. It does look as though you need a Digital Audio interface to handle signal flow into your computer. These range from very cheap (M-Audio Transit USB $80) to the extreme (Prizm Sound Orpheus $5000). The big differences......the QUALITY of both the Mic Preamps and AD/DA converters. If you are just starting out, you should be fine with either the M-audio Fastrack USB, or Lexicon Alpha, both under $150, the reviews of both of these units have been very good. If you plan on big projects with lots of Audio tracks and Softsynths, you should look into a pro level Firewire interface, such as the RME Fireface 400, or MOTU Ultralite/828 II, etc.
2. As far as your BIAB issue with your played part, you are using the THRU channel, not the melody track. When you record a midi track, it does become the melody track. So, to change the sound you HEAR as you are playing, make sure you highlight the THRU channel, and then change the PATCH to what you want to hear using the dropdown menu.
3. Your internal soundcard is in most cases a very cheap variety meant for basic sound functions, it does not provide ASIO drivers or Mic recording ability. Many users disable the internal soundcard after installing a Digital Audio interface.
Yes, this is a deep learning curve if you are just starting out, but with some manual reading as well as visiting Pro audio forums on the net, you will be fine, and of course we are always here to help.
Ed
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 28
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 28 |
Thanks for the info Ed - I will try your suggestions for getting the playback to work. I had already read through some of your recent posts and they have contributed to my knowledge building especially with interfaces. Thanks!
From what I gather, once I have the AI (Maybe the Fast Track Pro - 2 front-panel mic/line) I will disable the internal sound card and then route my computer speakers through the back of the interface.
WinXP Pro / BiaB 2010 / Fast Track Pro / Ketron SD2
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
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