Thanks for posting that Noel. Very interesting indeed. Am I the only one here who thinks that we should just share? What nonsense is all this? Music is for everyone. I was watching The Lion Share on Netflix the other day about The Lion Sleeps Tonight. I don’t know... maybe it is just me.. but who in their right mind thinks that they can “own” music. Maybe I would have a different view if one of Katie Perry’s songs sounded like one of mine
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Joanne, you might indeed think differently if your living depended on songwriting. I’ve been fortunate that I rarely needed to make a living by music, but in six decades of professional playing and writing I’ve always acted in a way that preserved the rights and opportunities of those who do make a living. I will not give away what others need to charge for. The exception is donating my services for a charity. But for everything else, I respect that music is a business.
In these cases of music plagiarism, I feel the decision must be made by musically-knowledgeable judges in a bench trial, never by juries of average folks.
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................... In these cases of music plagiarism, I feel the decision must be made by musically-knowledgeable judges in a bench trial, never by juries of average folks.
I completely agree.
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
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This is very dangerous indeed. There are no similarities between those two pieces of music other than the language of music itself. The contested form has been used for centuries and certainly is in the public domain.
It is like Hemingway's heirs suing the Ziggy cartoonist for using the some of the same words as "Old Man & The Sea".
I hope Ms. Perry appeals and wins and collects her legal fees.
Ever since the also very wrong "Blurred Lines" decision, it seems like open season for gold diggers via the legal system.
The reason for the copyright laws is so that the plagiarizer couldn't copy another authors work and thus diminish the sales of the original work. I can't see how this tune by Ms. Perry stole one penny of profit from the original.
This is not justice, it's theft via the legal system.
The "Christian" rapper called Flame is not acting very Christ-Like - Thou shalt not steal.
But then it's a lot easier to call yourself a Christian than to act Christ-like
Always striving to act Christ-Like is something the nuns in parochial school drummed into our heads on a daily basis for all the years I was in Catholic school.
Speaking as someone who makes a living writing songs, this is a horrible ruling and dangerous precedent. It opens up a Pandora's Box where copyright infringement suits can become a cottage industry (regardless of the legitimacy of the claim). The average cost to the defendant in these type of cases, just to have a frivolous suit thrown out, is $30,000. Again, that's $30k of expense to the songwriter/publisher even if the claim is completely invalid. The cost can skyrocket if it gets litigated further.
I personally believe this is one instance where a trial by jury is the wrong way to go. Copyright infringement decisions should be rendered by individuals who are qualified to make decisions based on true musical similarity (or lack of), not arbitrary folks off the street.
As to the notion that all music should be "shared" or "free", there are a myriad of reasons why that makes no sense, much less wouldn't work in the real world. By that logic, I should be able to walk into the Louvre, take the Mona Lisa off the wall, and bring it home with me. The rights of creators are protected in the U.S. by nothing less than the U.S. Constitution (Article 1, Section 8) - "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries." Virtually all nations have a similar respect for intellectual property rights, and it is a huge component of international commerce - while it can be argued that it may not be a good thing, it is a fact of life, and there would be significant balance of trade issues that would erupt if IP such as music were to made free for all.
Count me on the side of protecting intellectual property. I have never made a nickel from any of my songs, but I worked hard on them. They are mine and they mean a lot to me. They all have something special that is a part of me. I will never concede that anyone has the right to use them without my permission.
I've had a copyright court cases thread running on the Keyboard Corner forum and posted this one last week. For some reason I forgot to post it here. Rick Beato has the best analysis I've seen so far. He's a solid musician and plays parts of both songs on his guitar and keyboard to illustrate his points.
Who knows why the jury did what they did. In court it's all about the quality of the evidence and witnesses. Maybe she came off snotty and arrogant. Maybe her musicologist didn't explain this as clearly as Beato did. Whatever, this verdict needs to be overturned.
As for refusing to have a jury trial, that's illegal. People have the absolute right to a jury trial and that's not changing so you have to have your act together or this happens.
If it did require a trial by jury, Katy would have benefited if she could have used Adam Neely as her attorney.
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I heard about this, and it's absolutely infuriating. It really makes it daunting for songwriters trying to thrive when something like this is reason enough to be sued. It's gone too far.
I understand the need to protect intellectual property. We live in a world where people will circulate your entire portfolio of songs for free as soon as you publish. This is out of control, and nobody seems to be doing much about it.
But heaven forbid your own original song includes a short fragment from somebody else's song. That breach of judgement could cost you millions.
Where do you draw the line between the elements of music and the creations we build from them? That's what needs to be defined. Until there is a clear definition of exactly what part of an idea can be owned exclusively, lawyers will continue to push the boundaries until there's no room left for anyone to dare to write a song.
We all thought we've known that for like forever. Melody and lyrics AND, song specific "licks" that can be considered part of a melody. My favorite example of that is the Stones Satisfaction. Everybody in the world who cares knows that intro lick and it runs throughout the song. Nobody with half a brain would dare to use that in some other song.
BUT, getting away from the obvious ones, where do you draw the line? Is some one bar phrase or lick something like Satisfaction or is it simply an open source part of a song construction kit? That's what this case is about and to me the jury sure got it wrong but the question is why did they get it wrong? What was presented to them? What were the jury instructions from the judge? Rules of evidence are very specific in any court.
The appeal should be very interesting. If she loses the appeal I would take it to the Supreme Court. The problem there is they only accept a very few cases. Another problem is this is rap and pop stuff. Pretty much anybody over the age of 50 or so can't stand to listen to it. I can see judges and juries simply shutting their ears to it and going yeah, whatever who cares about this crap. They don't want to hear about the creativity that went into it, they think it's a joke. Or at least most probably.
There are a lot of songwriter/publisher related disputes that are handled through arbitration. The number of infringement cases that actually go to court is small, usually either when both parties are adamant in their position beyond the point of common sense, or the more frequent frivolous cases, where you're (quite frankly) dealing with nut jobs. I had a guy try to sue me a few years back because we had written the same title. His copyright date was 2006, and I got the "you stole my song" letters. I pointed out that MY song was not only written/copyrighted in 1994, it had been on a 1999 Trace Adkins album. His reply was "well you must've known I was planning on writing it". Some people just can't be reasoned with. Conversely, I know of a LOT of legitimate infringements that were handled privately, that were never made public. The infringing writer basically had an "oh crap!" moment, approached the original creator and said "let me make this right". Most of the cases you read about are the gray area cases, or the ones such as I described earlier above.
Going to trial would be the last thing I would ever want to do, regardless of which side of the infringement I happened to be on. It's expensive, stressful, and the only ones who come out ahead are the lawyers.
I would prefer to see a mandatory arbitration process implemented - going to court would be a last resort instead of step one. Not realistic maybe, but if courts/juries continue to get it wrong, something is going to have to be adjusted.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
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