|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 123
Apprentice
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 123 |
Working on songwriting and arranging.
Creating melodies, I can handle. But chords and chords progression is not my best part.
Doing this in midi. Not in BIAB.
I am getting good results if I create chords by ear. This means moving the chord notes until the chords sound good with the melody. But I am also creating chords outside the key.
For instance in the key of C Maj, I have a good sound chord with A# D F. Fits good with the melody. But not a key chord.
I trust my ears, but they are inexperienced.
Is this something I can continue with (creating chords by ear), or I am going to run into problems.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,199
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,199 |
If it sounds good, then it's good. As I see it... with music, it's ultimately about sound so trust your ears. When you get to something that you don't understand, then look up the theory if or when needed. As for A#-D-F, that is mostly like a Bb chord (Bb-D-F) since A# = Bb. While this chord is more likely to appear in the major keys of F, Bb and Eb, it could still certainly be used in the key of C major. I've just written a song where I used Bb as the flattened 7th in the key of C (this chord often arises in popular music). The progression I ended up with was C-Am-Bb-F-Gsus Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381 |
"Key" is a bit over-rated when you're talking about chords/progression. "Key" is mostly about scales.
"Is this something I can continue with (creating chords by ear), or I am going to run into problems." Ultimately, even with a knowledge of diatonic chord theory, you are creating chords by ear. What sounds good? What creates the mood and movement you want? Knowing the diatonic chords in a key is a great baseline. But there are so many variations available beyond those basic 7 chords that are equally "musical" and ultimately maybe even more interesting for a particular song. Definitely trust your ears.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 123
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 123 |
That is good news. Will save me a lot of headache and time.
So the rule a certain chord has to lead to a certain few chords is more a guideline then a rule. V to I and ending on I, are the only ones I will have to keep in mind? Because they are strong and good for closure.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,018
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,018 |
If it sounds good, then it's good. The only rule of music. First and foremost, trust your ears.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591 |
Amin is the relative minor of Cmaj.
AMaj is the 6th of the C scale.
But, what is the A# chord or A# scale relative to CMaj called?
Anyone know?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,199
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,199 |
Ed, As I mentioned above, the most likely chord is a Bb chord (since A# is equivalent to Bb). If that's the case, it would make the chord that Leo mentioned a triad based on the flattened 7th of the C major scale. This is a relatively popular chord these days. Here's a small article about it https://www.songwriting.net/blog/topic/flat-seven-chordRegards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 123
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 123 |
Thanks for the replies. I am going to trust my ears. There was doubt because I am new to this. My ears are good, my knowledge not so.
Tip: If you want to know the name of a chord you have created, search Google for it: A# D F chord
The first page at Google gives 26 chords names which they belong to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591 |
So, Noel, we call it the flat seven, hey? BTW: Remember this little jewel somebody came across? https://www.fretflip.com/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,199
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,199 |
Hi Ed. Yes... given that Leo said he was in the key of C, the flat 7 chord seems a good interpretation. Without hearing him playing the music, though, and knowing the surrounding musical texture, it's not possible to know with certainty. I really like flat 7 chords. Here are some progressions that you might like to try... https://www.secretsofsongwriting.com/2011/05/06/using-a-flat-vii-chord-in-your-songs-progressions/Also, thank you for the link to fretflip. I haven't seen this before. It's very interesting. All the best, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381 |
Amin is the relative minor of Cmaj.
AMaj is the 6th of the C scale.
But, what is the A# chord or A# scale relative to CMaj called?
Anyone know? "A" is the sixth note of a C major scale. But the diatonic chord built from it is an Amin. The Bb (A#) might be said by a music theorist to be borrowed from another mode of C major. There are 3 modes of C that have a Bb as the VII chord. One is a major mode--Mixolydian. Two are minor modes--Dorian and Aeolian (usually just referred to as "Minor"). As Noel said, what is what would depend on other factors. As for me, I'd just do what sounds and feels right and leave it to "theorists and theory" to explain what I did.  It's liberating to know there are options, however, and theory can point the way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381 |
That is good news. Will save me a lot of headache and time.
So the rule a certain chord has to lead to a certain few chords is more a guideline then a rule. V to I and ending on I, are the only ones I will have to keep in mind? Because they are strong and good for closure. Absolutely not a rule. V to I is certainly a strong resolution (maybe top-of-the-heap for strength), but other moves to "I" have different feels that might be what you're looking for in a particular song. And there is no rule that a song or part of a song must end on the "I" (tonic) triad. I'm working on piece now that ends on a Idim, because that's the "emotion" I want to convey. The "I" triad doesn't even have to appear in the song at all. Have fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,668
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,668 |
Song writing is a HUGE topic with so many side roads and rabbit trails..... It's easy to get lost and overwhelmed by the vastness of the topic and the information. People who have spent a lifetime studying music theory are still learning new things every day they work with it. Working on songwriting and arranging.
Creating melodies, I can handle. But chords and chords progression is not my best part.
Doing this in midi. Not in BIAB.
I am getting good results if I create chords by ear. This means moving the chord notes until the chords sound good with the melody. But I am also creating chords outside the key.
For instance in the key of C Maj, I have a good sound chord with A# D F. Fits good with the melody. But not a key chord.
I trust my ears, but they are inexperienced.
Is this something I can continue with (creating chords by ear), or I am going to run into problems.
This sounds like you should study music theory a bit. That way, you will have an understanding of what you're doing, and how to get there when you want to do something. I'd suggest perhaps looking to see if the local community college offers music theory as a stand alone class. They normally start new classes in Sept so your timing might just be spot on. Trying to learn theory from a book is not the best way to approach this. Get in a class or find a teacher of music who can tutor you at a reasonable cost until you get to where you need to be to understand it better. Theory is indispensable when you're working on progressions and scales and building or finding the right chord to use. A# D F is actually the chord triad Bb by itself. In the key of C it becomes a flat 7th chord. Doesn't normally fit but that all depends on how it's used. As others have said.... if it sounds good to you, it can easily work regardless of the theory or the math, or the science behind it because all that matters is the end result to the listener. Most of all, this should be fun.....
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,827
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,827 |
For better or worse we make 'em up as we go w/o a whit of music theory -- not denigrating theory just pointing out we have none. For Janice when it comes to our progressions and melodies it's either "musical" (as she says) or not. Just another way of saying that if it pleases your ear then go for it.  Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,668
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,668 |
For better or worse we make 'em up as we go w/o a whit of music theory -- not denigrating theory just pointing out we have none. For Janice when it comes to our progressions and melodies it's either "musical" (as she says) or not. Just another way of saying that if it pleases your ear then go for it. Bud You know it, have it, and use music theory whether you realize it or not. Many folks like yourselves have learned how to write songs and play an instrument without taking any sort of classical theory class..... but that doesn't mean you haven't learned or understood the theory even though you may not know the technical words or the "rules of the road". John Lee Hooker knew that in the key of G.... he could use C and D to play a song....he might not have understood why but he just knew it worked. He may not have every taken a music theory class to learn the WHY of that thing that he just naturally did every time he picked up his guitar. It's how I started playing.....jamming along with songs on the radio.... but then later, I ended up taking music lessons. My teacher of piano taught me the relationships that exist in chords, how inversions change the color of the chord and why, and so much more about music in general and why they exist and how they are used to best effect. Later in school, I took 2 years of dedicated music theory in a very small class. there was a total of 5 kids in that class including me and all of us were involved deeply in music of one sort or another. Now days, I don't set down to write and say to myself, now.... what did Miss Shaw say about the tonic chord with a flatted 7th..... nope. If it fits, it works in that instance. I've forgotten most of that formal stuff with the years but it's still the foundation I work from. So while you may not be formally educated in music theory, you still use it when you write.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 08/30/19 03:12 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 123
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 123 |
There was a lot of food for thoughts in here. Thanks for the replies. I am going the ear way. It can be done I know now. This will improve and probably I will find chord combinations that I will never find by using (my limited) theory.
I can create melodies and text, because this is an ear thing. But the chord theory is hard for me and I easily forget. And there is so much to learn.
There 220 3 note chords. No thanks. I am going to trust my ears.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,847
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,847 |
If it sounds good, then it's good. The only rule of music. First and foremost, trust your ears. This "rule" assumes you know what sounds good. And "sounds good" is extremely subjective. In my opinion this can be handily broken down into 4 groups! 1) good music I like (most country, classic rock, most modern pop, some hip hop, classical, etc.) 2) good music I don't like (jazz, rap, polka, big band, etc.) 3) bad music (someone trying to play but having little or no knowledge of how music is created) 4) not music (your baby pounds on your keyboard and makes sounds) You could add subcategories to #1 and #2 like played great, played OK, played poorly, etc. But #3 and #4 don't need subcategories IMHO!  With that all said I am willing to admit that even if you are "playing" "music" in categories #3 and #4, if you (or your mom or anyone really) enjoy it then it is good enough for you and your "fans"!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics85,328
Posts790,978
Members39,856
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There are no members with birthdays on this day. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean