Hi, I haven't used the program for a long time, tired of sooooooooo much frustration with so many bugs.
Ten minutes ago I tried it again just to try to play along with some jazz standards, no advanced features, nothing fancy, just loading a file and press play, right?
Well, after clicking on the song picker, I clicked on a couple of songs, with the message "File not found". Then I clicked on the "rebuild" button and, you know what? Program crash
That's too much. Program uninstalled. Thanks to everyone here. Bye bye
Cerio, I understand your frustration, but please don't leave. You've been a great contributer over many years, and have provided many worthwhile ideas.
Take a back seat for a short while if you need, regroup, and come back to the team. Personally I think your contributions have been very valuable. The forum members benefit from input such as yours, seriously.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Sometimes I wonder if the BiaB kernel is a holdover from its DOS days and that it's just had cut and paste jobs done to it ever since. I'm probably wrong, but it often feels like it, the way BiaB often behaves. I've had my share of issues with BiaB, many unresolved, and I've thought about just not using it anymore, but the problem is there is nothing else out there that does what BiaB does -- to my knowledge at any rate. So I continue to muddle through, not a very happy camper with all the stuff that I can't get to work right. What choice do I have?
So long. Stop back by if you find a suitable replacement and let us know what you've found. I suspect that you won't, though.
I love this forum and all the people who so willingly offer all the help and tips. My humble thanks. I apologize for not helping more, offering my opinion, and posting more, but there are many incredible people on here that prove I am not needed.
I love/hate BIAB. I own and operate what I consider to be a successful studio. BIAB is a critical piece of my success. I have used it for many years.
But it still crashes my system. It stays somewhat stable when it is the only program in memory. But when I open my DAW to transfer .wav files, I can pretty much expect a crash before the transfers are done. When I hear .wav files popping and crackling inside my DAW during playback, I know it's time to reboot. No BSOD's and only rarely a page fault error screen from BIAB. It is NOT my DAW. After a reboot, the same .wav files that were popping and crackling sound fine. The down time in a studio that charges by the hour is frustrating.
BIAB is AMAZING. I am not asking for help and advice. I am able to get anything I need out of BIAB. But IMHO, I question how much testing is being done, because pgmusic still has some SERIOUS issues to solve.
My thanks to all of you for all the help you provide.
Cerio, I feel your pain! But there is nothing out there that will do what BIAB does. So I stick with it.
I have given up on the vast majority of features in BIAB because they either don't work properly or are leftover remnants from a past incarnation or they are so well hidden I just don't have the time and patience to waste on them.
And don't even get me started on the GUI! I now understand it will always be frozen in time somewhere around Windows 95.
But with that all said, I continue to be blown away at how quickly BIAB can produce a set of studio quality tracks that I can use in my songs! For all its flaws, at its core BIAB truly rocks at doing that!
So, to get the best from BIAB and avoid the frustration, my strategy is this...
- buy all upgrades to get the new RealTracks - ignore all new features - ignore most old features - enter chords and sometimes holds, rests, etc. - use part markers for change-ups - export WAV files, one for each track with ALL PG F/X turned off
Get in and out as quickly as possible. Do all mixing and production in my DAW.
Cerio, Before this year's update I was VERY skeptical of the future of BIAB. I liked the final outcome of the arrangements, but the software part was driving me nuts (still does in many, many places) But, seems to me that folks at PG realized that something has to be done and this year we got the 64bit version and VST (I think VST still needs a lot of works). This was a big push forward! I hope that with next updates developers will focus on comprehensive updates /important issues that users been asking for years, not minor cosmetic stuff.
P.S. On your crashing issue... I am sure it is nothing major, just something you missed or have to do a minor tweak. If I am not mistaken, PG has an automated process of sending crash logs, maybe they will be able to tell you right away the cause of the issue and life will be happy again?
Hi, I haven't used the program for a long time, tired of sooooooooo much frustration with so many bugs.
That's too much. Program uninstalled. Thanks to everyone here. Bye bye
Cerio, I've asked you so many times over the years to first, acknowledge a bug is an advertised feature that doesn't work as advertised and second, to describe exactly what you think the bug is so we can test it.
You've never done that. You've had a ton of Wishlist requests and those are fair enough but man, so many complaints about stuff you call bugs that the program was never designed to do and was not an advertised feature. I remember one time you went on and on about the inability to use Undo when you're auditioning styles. Where does it say Biab can do that? Undo does not work for everything, simple as that and that's true for many other pieces of software too. And the workaround if you can call it that, is so easy. Hit File and select the song again from the Recent Songs list. Say NO to the Save question and voila, you're back to your original style. That must be too much for you to understand though. If you insist on calling that a bug and you just can't live with it well, good for you.
Now you say you clicked on Rebuild and it crashed. What rebuild? Your song list, the Styles, what? If it's songs how many do you have? Are you aware there is a max limit of 50,000? Or, maybe there's some other unrelated issue that cause the crash? This is an example of what I just wrote above. You throw little statements like that like a hand grenade into a campfire then walk away. If you're interested (probably not as usual) describe exactly what you did, step by step so we can diagnose the crash. I absolutely, positively guarantee you it's something YOU did, nothing wrong with the program. Here's another gem of yours from a few months ago:
I've found all kind of problems like this when working with double/half time tracks, specially when exporting / rendering the result.
You will soon learn to just use ONLY the most basic features of BIAB (write chords, select style and that's all) if you want to avoid frustration.
No description of exactly what you were trying to do, what you did step by step, nothing. Just that little hand grenade then you walk away. I could find so many more examples it's ridiculous but why?
Btw, I'm not writing all this just to bug you personally. I could care less about that. No, it's because these forums are read by people all over the world and I just want to set the record straight. Most of your issues are of your own making. Not all, true enough. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
I must be doing something wrong. Fair enough I use BAIB simply, just laying out simple music sometimes complex chords but I never experience a number of the issues I read about here. I’ve found BIAB to be extremely reliable. Ok so sometimes I don’t get what I want first go, so then I change things maybe redo parts. Mix and match RealTracks to suit or maybe generate a MIDI part so I can edit it. But that is a part of the experience.
Whenever I have had an issue it was almost invariably something I’ve done, generally through my own impatience (clicking two things at once or trying to access ASIO twice creating a barf). But I rarely have an issue with BIAB itself.
My two bobs worth.
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
Cerio, I've asked you so many times over the years to first, acknowledge a bug is an advertised feature that doesn't work as advertised and second, to describe exactly what you think the bug is so we can test it.
You've never done that.
[...]
Btw, I'm not writing all this just to bug you personally. I could care less about that. No, it's because these forums are read by people all over the world and I just want to set the record straight. Most of your issues are of your own making. Not all, true enough. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
Of course you're writing this just to bug me personally. That's what you've always done with me and others when you think somebody is "attacking" PG Music with some complaint about an obvious bug / problem / issue / limitation / weirdness / call it as you want on the program. It's Ok, I couldn't care less about that.
But please, don't lie. Because all you wrote above is a BIG LIE. Over the years I've contributed with DOZENS, if not HUNDREDS of posts (specially in the private Pre-release testing subforum) describing the exact process I'm following to get a problem, spending my time by uploading examples (screenshots, audio, video...), in the hope that others could replicate it and, eventually get the problem fixed. Some of the issues were solved by the developers, some of them are still there. Do you really need some examples? Here we go:
so many complaints about stuff you call bugs that the program was never designed to do and was not an advertised feature. I remember one time you went on and on about the inability to use Undo when you're auditioning styles. Where does it say Biab can do that?
I call BS on this! A modern commercial software application should behave in a standard manner regardless of whether or not it claims to do so. When it does not, as in a Cancel command that does NOT cancel, then that is a BUG! Full stop.
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
I absolutely, positively guarantee you it's something YOU did, nothing wrong with the program.
Wow! That is some serious top-drawer fanboi stuff right there!
Cerio, I just grabbed a couple of your links at random. I remember them from Pre release testing. that's TESTING. That's what TESTING is for to find bugs and fix them. Even then the first one I clicked on was concerning the Hi Q Patches not showing up. All that was was some folks didn't have Sampletank authorized correctly or they had the patches installed in the incorrect directory. IKM's authorization procedures are confusing for sure but still I managed to do it and didn't have that problem. It's the posts on the open forums I'm talking about.
Then the second one was something about no text showing up when you did a Return to Factory Settings and you posted it with a large, yellow, ugly mad face emoji. Like that ruined your whole day or something. What were you 13 years old so you're 16 now? Then Peter responded that affected non English versions only so yes that was a bug. Congratulations, it had nothing to do with the function of the program but yeah, so it's a text mistake is Spanish and for that you had to post that emoji.
I'm not going to to through all of those links, but the first one I grabbed at random was wrong and the second was pretty minor and not even the English version and then there's the idea that that's the TESTING FORUM. Jeesh. I'm not really complaining about you posting in the testing forum, that's what it's for but still...the first two I click on?
JJJ, serious fanboi stuff? Really? Then you ask him to describe EXACTLY what he did when it crashed and try to duplicate it and then tell me is it the software or him?
Just for laughs I just clicked on one more of his links, the first one.
The title of the post is Disabling Loop Tracks Not Working and it's dated 05/08/19 in the testing forum and no one has replied. Here's what he wrote:
I don't think this one is related to the last build, disabling loop tracks has no effect at all.
It looks like an easy one to fix.
Go ahead JJJ, test that and see what the issue is. No questions allowed, he says it's a bug so test it.
Then the second one was something about no text showing up when you did a Return to Factory Settings and you posted it with a large, yellow, ugly mad face emoji. Like that ruined your whole day or something. What were you 13 years old so you're 16 now? Then Peter responded that affected non English versions only so yes that was a bug. Congratulations, it had nothing to do with the function of the program but yeah, so it's a text mistake is Spanish and for that you had to post that emoji.
Man, are you serious? that's not an emoji, that was a screenshot that I originally uploaded to tinypic, but it's no longer available on that server. You don't have to be a genius to realize that, you just need to read the little letters below your "emoji" (see the attached image). BTW: I've always used the English version of BIAB
Next one, this is going to be funny
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Now you say you clicked on Rebuild and it crashed. What rebuild? Your song list, the Styles, what?
Man, you have to read. Here's what I wrote on the first post. Do you read other people posts before answering?.
Originally Posted By: Cerio
Well, after clicking on the song picker, I clicked on a couple of songs, with the message "File not found". Then I clicked on the "rebuild" button and, you know what? Program crash
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Just for laughs I just clicked on one more of his links, the first one. The title of the post is Disabling Loop Tracks Not Working and it's dated 05/08/19 in the testing forum and no one has replied. Here's what he wrote: "I don't think this one is related to the last build, disabling loop tracks has no effect at all. It looks like an easy one to fix." Go ahead JJJ, test that and see what the issue is. No questions allowed, he says it's a bug so test it.
Yes, exactly, and the issue (I'll avoid the B**-word, I know you hate it ) is still not resolved, at least on my system, with the last update installed. The post was intended for experienced users (it's on the testing subforum, remember?), but since I'm seeing what can be the problem here, I'll elaborate the text " disabling loop tracks has no effect at all" with a little bit more detail, so even an eight years old child can follow the exact steps to replicate the problem (if it's replicable)
1. Sit down in front of the computer 2. Turn on the computer 3. Grab the mouse 4. Login on Windows 5. Wait until Windows is completely launched. 6. Look for the BIAB Icon (probably on your desktop) 7. Click on it. Twice. 8. Wait until BIAB is completely launched 9. Click on the "Style Icon" (that small, little grey square at the top of the screen, with a small magnifying glass on it). Click on any style from the list, for this example we will use the "_BOSSAPT" (Bossa Piano Trio) example. 10. Click the "OK" icon. 11. Press play. You will hear a Bass track, a Piano track and a Drum track playing on C, isn't' it? 12. Now add a loop track to your song. Right click with the mouse on the "Guitar track" text > Select a Loop for this track > Choose any loop from your collection (for example "Dubstep - armz_Drum-Loop_1-e-140ev16.wav" 13. Click on the "OK" icon 14. Press play again. Now you will hear a Bass track, a Piano track, a Drum track and a Drum Loop track, isn't' it? 15. Now, disable the Piano Track. Right click on Piano Track > Track settings > Deselect Piano track is enabled" 16. Now you will hear no piano, right? The piano doesn't sound because the Piano track is disabled, right? Disabling the piano track actually disables the piano track and that is correct, right? Ok 17. Now try disable the Loop Track the same way you did with the Piano Track. Right click on Loop Track > Track settings > Deselect "Loop track is enabled" 18. Now you shouldn't hear the Loop Track, isn't it? Is that what you get? Probably, if you're using the same program as me the loop track keeps playing no matter if it's enabled or disabled, right?. And this is wrong, isn't it?
In summary, disabling Loop tracks actually doesn't disable the Loop Track. This particular command doesn't work. It's a b**. Nothing serious, just a b** reported on a private subform intended for reporting b***, and I'm pretty sure the developers will fix it eventually, if they can replicate it. Nothing serious, Bob. Take it easy, man. Life is short. Relax.
And now, seriously, this will be my last post in this forum. You can go on with your insults and BS, Bob, you can keep making a fool of yourself with your "emojis", your "it's not a bug, it's YOUR fault", your "UNDO that doesn't UNDO is right" and other nonsenses if you want. You're living on a free world and I'm pretty sure you feel you're doing the right thing, so just go on with your fanboy attitude if that makes you feel good, I am not going to waste a single second on this anymore, it's like arguing with an angry, ten years old boy about his favourite toy.
Thanks to everyone here, I've learned a lot and met many beautiful people over all this years. All the best.
I don't get get it about that pic/emoji. It's a mad face and it shows up in that post implying that issue really upset you so bad you had to include it. That was not intended?
As for the Loop Track thing, for some reason I didn't get it. I just tested it now and you're correct, it's definitely a bug. Not only won't it disable, the Reset Track to Default Settings won't kill the loop either. The display goes back to midi Guitar in my case but the loop is still playing so I had to re select the guitar midi patch before it went back to guitar. Kinda clunky for sure. I gotta give that one to you.
Still, it's your overall attitude including inflammatory comments about the program that I still don't like. Your soooooo frustrated with all the bugs and crashing. Everybody else just works around these little things and keeps on going but you get soooo frustrated. Maybe it's just your style of writing, I don't know. Just like the title of your thread here. Bye Bye Biab. Why that? If you can't live with Biab why make a big splash about it? It's like you're deliberately getting in Peters face and trashing the program on your way out. Anybody else just stops posting and goes away.
And I still stand by my comment about the crash issue. It's not the program. You did something with your song directory, you have too many songs, something. Seriously, with all the years of usage, all the testing I've done with beta's, changing computers, all that stuff I really cannot remember the last time the program crashed. And no, I don't just work on simple songs. I'm a jazz/funk/fusion guy, that stuff gets fairly complex.
Anyway, good luck with finding a replacement for Biab.
I share your disappointment with Band in a Box. Sadly, there is no,real alternative.
Noticing that Biab doesn’t live up to its’ promise to play “all the chords” and really only knows 7 chords (7 7th chords to be precise) was another big let down.
Pgmusic keeps adding weird stuff that makes Biab more complex but rarely more stable.
I hope they change their policy and put some effort into making Biab really good. In the meantime I tey to live with it, there are some great features, but I share your disappointment,
Best regards,
Jan
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
Don't really have a dog in the hunt on this one, but going to chime in anyway. I've never had any issues w BIAB that weren't of my own doing, other than having to reinstall a few files that didn't install properly to begin with. Minor issue, quickly resolved.
That said, maybe there is some more in-depth stuff that I'm not aware of, or haven't stumbled onto yet, that are legitimate issues. All I know is, it works flawlessly for me. Not disputing that issues may exist, just stating my experience. I've also found the customer support to be exceptional.
The part I'm a bit perplexed about is the grandstanding exit. I could understand maybe shooting a private message to some of the members/participants that you developed a friendly relationship with, but this has a "look at me, look at me" feel about it that rubs wrong. To use a music analogy, this is one of those situations that maybe should've had a long, slow fade instead of a hard ending. JMO.
Just for laughs I just clicked on one more of his links, the first one.
The title of the post is Disabling Loop Tracks Not Working and it's dated 05/08/19 in the testing forum and no one has replied. Here's what he wrote:
I don't think this one is related to the last build, disabling loop tracks has no effect at all.
It looks like an easy one to fix.
Go ahead JJJ, test that and see what the issue is. No questions allowed, he says it's a bug so test it.
Bob
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
As for the Loop Track thing, for some reason I didn't get it. I just tested it now and you're correct, it's definitely a bug.
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
It's like you're deliberately getting in Peters face and trashing the program on your way out. Anybody else just stops posting and goes away.
I suspect Peter would prefer legitimate complaints that expose real bugs regardless of their snarkiness over blindly defending the program against said complaints! If the "complainers" just go away as you prefer PGM loses valuable customers who were engaged enough to identify real issues.
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