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For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums #555201 09/17/19 09:49 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Sep 2013 Posts: 29 San Diego HappyRon OP Enthusiast
OP HappyRon Enthusiast Joined: Sep 2013 Posts: 29 San Diego	For Pro Sound should I step up from Realdrums? And if so is ADDITIVE DRUMS a good place to start? If not what do people recommend? I currently use REALDRUMS and TRACKS and then load them into Sonar and have been happy with the results but I often hear from pros that the drums could be better. I'm not going to record actual drums of course but I want to get better tracks. I understand that MID gives you ability to edit drum as a seperate track but does the Been so spoiled by band in a box for 20 years that I haven't really done any drum programming or MIDI, I'm a singer/songwriter (American, Funny songs) and I want to step things up. Thanks for any thoughts, I need to check out this forum more often. Here's some BB tracks of mine if interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U804DJStm_I&list=PLNE-zflPjn9DLUgHkFVv6fnKSAZUy481n ------- HappyRon's (Mr Rogers Meets South Park) Inspirational Quotes With Music Videos (all made with BB)

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #555211 09/17/19 10:58 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,216 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,216 Hamlin NY	Hi Happy Ron, Additive Drums 2 is an excellent drum program. You can set it up for GM drums so a BiaB MIDI drum track will work with it with no problems. In Sonar I would separate BiaB's drum track by note; I solo each separated track so I can name them, i.e. high tom. snare, etc. This way you can put effects on each individual track. For instance reverb and delay on the snare but only compression on the kick. Have fun and I hope this helps. Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer. It's called the Heineken Maneuver. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #555225 09/17/19 11:50 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra... Teunis Expert
Teunis Expert Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...	Using Addictive Drums in a DAW the Addictive Drums will split the drums for you. One track in to many out. It is also possible to set your kit up with effects already on them also set volumes and panning for each drum (or mic). Better yet in a DAW one can render the drums into separate audio tracks to allow processing as you would a recorded set. Once a kit is set up it is possible to save it. Also in the DAW save the track setup for the one in to multi out as a track template. Very simple in Cakewalk or Reaper I assume also other DAWs. Addictive Drums is very powerful as are a number of other drum samplers. Take time to learn the features. Groove3 have excellent tutorials on using Addictive Drums. Tony HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #555326 09/18/19 04:09 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA R rockstar_not Veteran
rockstar_not Veteran R Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA	I don’t know if EZ Drummer works well with BIAB, but I love the results I get with it. Drums are pretty much all that I can’t play with usable outcomes so in a sense it is my DIAB, Drummer in a box. I don’t mean that I can play brass or woodwinds because I can’t. As it is I just don’t even think to use those types of sounds in my writing. Drums were my weakness but EZ Drummer really has flipped that around for me. My Songs, photos, writing,etc. My Sound Cloud

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #555333 09/18/19 04:41 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2012 Posts: 12,438 Florida floyd jane Veteran
floyd jane Veteran Joined: Aug 2012 Posts: 12,438 Florida	Hi, Ron. Welcome to the forums! A few things to consider before you start buying (and trying to learn) new Drums software... When you say "I often hear from pros that the drums could be better...." What define these folks as "pros"? What do they (or you) mean by "could be better..."? Does that mean the playing???? .... because the guys playing the BIAB drums are the best there are... they know what they are doing... Does that mean - your drums aren't loud enough?? Drummers (your pros?) like the hear drums above most everything else. I listened to several of your videos (I enjoyed them, btw). I thought, for the most part, your drum choices were good, but they are a bit "buried in the mix". (Also, you don't get carried away with part markers - and therefore drum fills - they way some folks tend to...a good thing). Does they mean the overall SOUND of the drums? The drums in you video could use some processing to "make them pop". Some high end EQ, some compression (and a bit more volume). With just a little effort (processing), the BIAB drums can be some of the best there are. Are you using a current version of BIAB (and at least the UltraPak)? There have been some great new choices in the last couple of years. There are SO many choices of style - and choosing the RIGHT one can make all the difference Learning to use any of the Drum programs (Addictive Drummer, EZDrummer, etc.) can be a bit of a daunting task. If you don't have a decent grasp of how to "be a drummer", it is easy to "make a mess of things". And you can end up spending all your time "trying to get the thing to do what you want"...instead of MAKING MUSIC. Check to see if SONAR has a preset for a Stereo Drum Track (which is what you get out of BIAB). Finding one might be all you need. I use Presonus Studio One Professional - which has a preset called "S1 Drumgroup"... droping that on a BIAB drum track livens it up considerable. And then keeping the drums at the proper level (loud enough to drive the track) is often all that is required... Good Luck!! 150+ Songs produced using BIAB RealTracks And 50 more... and some more...

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #555335 09/18/19 04:44 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2016 Posts: 299 Europe Dzjang Apprentice
Dzjang Apprentice Joined: Nov 2016 Posts: 299 Europe	For what it’s worth: In my opinion, Native’s Abbey Road Drums are sooo detailed and well recorded. You can change the sample-pool (snare hit, tap....) on every single note, my personal favorite. Plus, you have a whole range of studio grade effects to your disposal that you can assign to all parts of the kit, separately. Analogue drums Pizazz and Smoker are detailed too, little bit more difficult to set up, sadly, but definitely modern sounding. But, granted, Addictive drums has some nice gear. There’s so much nice stuff out there. I try to practice a lot to keep my head off buying new stuff, Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums Dzjang #555362 09/18/19 09:35 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A. 2bSolo Journeyman
2bSolo Journeyman Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A.	You're getting some good ideas. My experience may or may not be better. I really like the sound of Real Drums, but there are a couple of limitations. One is that not all of them handle pushes and stops well. The other is that you can't do any mixing or change effects with them-what you hear is what you get. That hasn't always worked for me. I use midi drums for all my songs now. Stops and pushes work well. I can also edit them if I want. For sounds I use Westwood Drums ($5 on sale)or MT Power Drums (free). Before you spend any money, I would audition these programs. The learning curve is almost non-existent. Both have a mixer which allows application of their reverb or you can leave it off and use your own. MT has a built-in compressor which you can use or not. As for process, I have BIAB generate the drums. Then I edit if necessary. Then I assign one of these programs to the drums as a plug-in. I use the mixer to solo so I can assign the snare, kick, toms and cymbals to separate tracks on my DAW. You can also have tracks with overhead and room sounds. I'm sure you can do this with Addictive Drummer and EZ Drummer also. They probably have a lot more features. I'm just trying to give you another idea. Hope you find something that works for you. 2b i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums 2bSolo #555372 09/18/19 11:07 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 15,398 GA USA Janice & Bud Veteran
Janice & Bud Veteran Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 15,398 GA USA	Originally Posted By: 2bSolo ...I really like the sound of Real Drums, but there are a couple of limitations. One is that not all of them handle pushes and stops well. The other is that you can't do any mixing or change effects with them-what you hear is what you get. That hasn't always worked for me. 2b There is a limited way around this. At the end of each RD audio file (found in the RealDrums folder) there are individual sounds for each kit component for that specific RD. With my DAW (Logic Pro X) it is easy take one of the sounds (clipping it from the file) and then double that sound on another track. With the original RD track set as a Logic Pro "groove" track I can very quickly double the kick and or snare and then process them to my liking. Toms and cymbals, etc., are not so easy for an entire track but easy for an emphasis here and there. I assume that other DAW's have a similar "groove track" function. If not you can manually comp in, for example, a snare to match the snare hits in the RD. But given that RD's are human you will have to do some nudging here and there. The groove function does it in a snap and they are all perfectly aligned. Afterwards I tweak one of Wave's CLA Drums "room" presets on the RD track then find a preset to tweak that I like for the individual components. YMMV, FWIW, etc. Bud PS Shoutout to floyd for his above RD analysis and for putting me on to doubling the snare years ago. Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #555380 09/18/19 11:30 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra... Teunis Expert
Teunis Expert Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...	I find also right clicking on the RealDrums track in a style and selecting the “QuickList in Style” option also offers a lot more control over RealDrums. Then going through the various options offers more ways the RealDrums play on a given style. For me it has cleaned up a lot of drum tracks. Tony HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #555508 09/19/19 06:53 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,343 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,343 Middlesex, NC	Yep I agree with Floyd. Before you go out and spend money, figure out the answers to his questions. I would be asking the same or similar questions as well. If you are using the tracks from BB & RB straight out of the box, even as good as they are, you should really be using some treatment on the tracks to .....as Floyd said.... make them pop. I absolutely love my custom designed Cakewalk plugs and Ozone software for audio tweeking. I use a lot of presets that I have tweezed over time, and saved. I have specific ones for practically every instrument. Drums, bass, and guitar is especially critical to get a good tone with.....plus vocals.... can't forget the vocals. Using a good audio plug is crucial. It means the difference between a so-so drum kit sound and one that really gets the job done. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #555740 09/20/19 04:20 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA R rockstar_not Veteran
rockstar_not Veteran R Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA	Well I guess I will have to disagree and say that EZ Drummer is well, easy. I do agree that defining ‘pro sound’ is entirely subjective. But it is a very easy program to use with very usable results in the first go. You do not need to be a drummer to use it. You do need to know a little about styles and what not and what your song structure is going to be. In that regard it’s not that different than BIAB. My Songs, photos, writing,etc. My Sound Cloud

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #555823 09/21/19 06:02 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,165 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,165 Mi., USA	Quote: .. but I often hear from pros that the drums could be better. Better how? The playing? Try forcing fills where you want them by using the part markers. Once in a DAW, copy/paste the good fills over ones that may not fit as well. (or generate more to work with) If it is the 'sound' of the drums; EQ, Compression, Enhancer/Exciters .. there are lots of ways to make the drum sound itself improved. PGMusic leaves enough headroom in the drum tracks to allow you to do this without much hassle. Even when we work with live drum recordings (which we do 9 out 10 times) there is a bit of FX work to do on them; this is not something unique to realdrums. We have one song our drummer didn't want to play .. replaced him with RDs without much issue. In our initial pre-release testing (having other musicians/audiophiles critique it before committing to print) nobody has mentioned the RDs yet. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #555854 09/21/19 10:35 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA R rockstar_not Veteran
rockstar_not Veteran R Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA	I do 90% of my songwriting and recording in February every year as part of the February Album Writing Month; where the challenge is to write 14 songs in the month of February. I also usually record a demo of the song. I take 4-6 to do the recordigs. In this regard, I've found EZ Drummer to be an insanely good solution as a songwriter. I end up with drums that have not caused me more than 10-15 minutes of work to lay out the song structure (intro, verses, choruses, pre-chorus, outro). I don't do any particular processing on the drum tracks. I use a DAW template for a delay and reverb send/returns, and I'll send the drums to those and maybe play with the send level, but that's about it. Here's some stuff from the past 2 years where I'm quite happy with the drum sounds - I will let others decide whether or not they are 'pro sound'. I don't know if these sound better or worse than BIAB. But since I play everything in my songs, besides drums, I may be partial to this 'drummer in a box' type thing that EZ Drummer allows me with very little effort. https://soundcloud.com/rockstar_not/while-my-guitar-exits-gently https://soundcloud.com/rockstar_not/open-up-scott-lake https://soundcloud.com/rockstar_not/10-riff-go-scott-lake https://soundcloud.com/rockstar_not/heading-back https://soundcloud.com/rockstar_not/catching-up https://soundcloud.com/rockstar_not/pavanica-scott-lake My Songs, photos, writing,etc. My Sound Cloud

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #556486 09/25/19 04:06 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA	Cakewalk by BandLab has two ProChannel presets for stereo drums. However, there are four additional presets suitable for individual drum tracks sent through a bus. If you want to get an idea of what drum plug-in programs offer, try using the drum plug-in included with Cakewalk by BandLab, Studio Drums, which is part of the Studio Instruments suite. The Studio Instruments GUI includes many drumkits and patterns so you can practice and learn how to use such tools for free since you already have it. Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) Clipboard01.jpg (76.83 KB, 58 downloads) Cakewalk by BandLab ProChannel drum presets. Clipboard02.jpg (66.69 KB, 58 downloads) Studio Instruments Drumkits Clipboard03.jpg (125.81 KB, 58 downloads) Studio Instrument Drums Interface Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums Jim Fogle #556536 09/26/19 03:20 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A. 2bSolo Journeyman
2bSolo Journeyman Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A.	Jim, I have the free version of Cakewalk. I have not found these dropdowns on it. Maybe I just overlooked them. Does anyone know if these drums available on the free version? 2b i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums HappyRon #556645 09/26/19 04:19 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA	BandLab calls Studio Instruments Suite an add-on. Open Bandlab Assistant Select "Apps" tab Select the down arrow next to the Cakewalk by BandLab "Open" button Pop-up sub menu displays Select "Install Add-ons ..." Pop-up sub menu displays Check "Studio Instruments Suite" Select Install button. Note: The Melodyne selection is a time limited free trial. If you install it there is no way to uninstall it. You can get the same thing from the Celemony website. I have not installed Drum Replacer or Theme Editor. Theme Editor allows you to modify the Cakewalk by BandLab interface colors. Drum Replacer tries to identify drum hits and lets you replace existing sounds with other sounds of your choice. I haven't played with either. Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) Clipboard01.jpg (148.16 KB, 35 downloads) Open BandLab Assistant Select "Apps" Left click on down arrow beside Open CbB button Select "Add-ons" Select Studio Instruments Suite Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: For Pro Sound should I step "up: from Realdrums Jim Fogle #556675 09/27/19 04:06 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A. 2bSolo Journeyman
2bSolo Journeyman Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A.	Thanks, Jim. i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.

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