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Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? #559928 10/20/19 05:51 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41 zacworld OP Enthusiast
OP zacworld Enthusiast Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41	Hi all, I'm still feeling my way around BIAB, and in so doing I ran into an issue. I input one of my originals which happens to be a bossa nova. I'm using the _BOSAMEP.STY style, which of those available seems to be the most appropriate in terms of feel and tempo. My tune starts with a AmMaj7 chord. When it's rendered it plays back just as a regular Am7 chord. I then tried using a MIDI style with all midi sounds instead of realtracks thinking maybe it was a realtrack limitation, but I ended up having the same result. I know BIAB uses the closest sounding chord available if it can't render the written chord. My question is what (if possible) can I do to get BIAB to actually play the minor-major-7 chord I want it to? Thanks

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #559930 10/20/19 05:59 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,216 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,216 Hamlin NY	AmMaj7 works here with no problems. Note that I use MIDI tracks and not RTs so I do not know if RTs will play properly. Note that I input it AmMaj7. How are you inputting it? What style(s) are you using? Are you on a Mac or PC? Any additional information would be useful. Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer. It's called the Heineken Maneuver. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? MarioD #559932 10/20/19 06:12 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41 zacworld OP Enthusiast
OP zacworld Enthusiast Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41	Originally Posted By: MarioD AmMaj7 works here with no problems. Note that I use MIDI tracks and not RTs so I do not know if RTs will play properly. Note that I input it AmMaj7. How are you inputting it? What style(s) are you using? Are you on a Mac or PC? Any additional information would be useful. Hi, I'm on a PC. I just tried it again using MIDI only, using the M_BOSSAM.STY style (for the realtracks I did mention the style in my first post). Once again it just plays an Am7 chord, not the AmMaj7 chord I want to hear.

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #559933 10/20/19 06:15 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41 zacworld OP Enthusiast
OP zacworld Enthusiast Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41	Originally Posted By: zacworld Originally Posted By: MarioD AmMaj7 works here with no problems. Note that I use MIDI tracks and not RTs so I do not know if RTs will play properly. Note that I input it AmMaj7. How are you inputting it? What style(s) are you using? Are you on a Mac or PC? Any additional information would be useful. Hi, I'm on a PC. I just tried it again using MIDI only, using the M_BOSSAM.STY style (for the realtracks I did mention the style in my first post). Once again it just plays an Am7 chord, not the AmMaj7 chord I want to hear. I forgot to mention I typed it directly into the chord sheet exactly as AmMaj7

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #559967 10/20/19 09:35 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2015 Posts: 1,114 Cornwall UK Mike Head Expert
Mike Head Expert Joined: Dec 2015 Posts: 1,114 Cornwall UK	Hi Using just the style you first tried : _BOSAMEP.STY style : with no other work on the song I can enter AmMaj7 no problem . When I use it over a number of bars the style plays notes based on that chord depending what it is doing it may or may not play the MaJ 7 or any other particular note from that chord , As you can see if you look at the notation for the Piano, (as this is the only track that we need look at as the other two are bass and drums.) If it adds the Maj 7th above or below or at all, depends on where it is going next . So it not like a held chord that you will always hear all the notes, Hope this helps Mike Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) score.jpg (167.43 KB, 112 downloads) BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? Mike Head #559972 10/20/19 10:12 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41 zacworld OP Enthusiast
OP zacworld Enthusiast Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41	Originally Posted By: Mike Head Hi Using just the style you first tried : _BOSAMEP.STY style : with no other work on the song I can enter AmMaj7 no problem . When I use it over a number of bars the style plays notes based on that chord depending what it is doing it may or may not play the MaJ 7 or any other particular note from that chord , As you can see if you look at the notation for the Piano, (as this is the only track that we need look at as the other two are bass and drums.) If it adds the Maj 7th above or below or at all, depends on where it is going next . So it not like a held chord that you will always hear all the notes, Hope this helps Mike Hi Mike. The major 7th would be a G# (AmMaj7 = A C E G#). I don't see a G# in that graphic you just included (I see several G naturals, but those are minor 7ths). Entering the chord was easy, but using that same style, even after hearing it played over 20 times I never did hear the G#. I don't think it's being included. Thanks. Zac

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #559975 10/20/19 10:29 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia	Hi zac, There are a couple of settings in BIAB that, by default, give BIAB the power to interpret chords and change them if the software thinks it's a smoother a progression. It sounds like you need to deactivate these settings. The image below shows these two settings. They are accessed by right-clicking on the chordsheet and then selecting "Song Settings". Brief explanation of settings... 1. Force Simple Arrangement = tells BIAB to play the chords entered. 2. Natural Arrangement = tells BIAB to consider the chords around a given chord and modify them if a better progression exists. Hope this helps, Noel Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) simple and natural arrangement.JPG (85.42 KB, 107 downloads) MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #559979 10/20/19 10:39 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,034 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,034 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	I write Brazilian jazz and use this chord all the time. I think Noel has the right approach, particularly turning off Natural Arrangement. Footnote: in the earliest days of RealTracks, sometime the piano or guitar would just lay out if I wrote a mMaj7 chord, perhaps because the performer had not recorded one for that RealTrack session. However, I haven't had this happen in many years. But the MIDI style should always work. I'm puzzled if it doesn't. Perhaps do an Options, Return to Factory Settings, Most. EDIT: there is another setting called Jazz Down the Chords. I'll find it later. Is it possible you turned this on for that song? Last edited by Matt Finley; 10/20/19 10:41 AM. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #559980 10/20/19 10:42 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2015 Posts: 1,114 Cornwall UK Mike Head Expert
Mike Head Expert Joined: Dec 2015 Posts: 1,114 Cornwall UK	HI I take your point. Strangely i have just generated this again and the the only time i get G# is in the auto generated 2 bar ending . The whole song is only 12 bars long, and as you say no G# in those bars. PS disable simple arrangement allows G# throughout the song . thanks Noel. Mike Last edited by Mike Head; 10/20/19 11:05 AM. BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #559982 10/20/19 10:54 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,034 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,034 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Now that's even stranger, Mike. The BIAB ending holds don't play many extensions on chords, just major, minor, dominant sevenths and major sevenths I think. Time for some experiments. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #559988 10/20/19 11:05 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,034 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,034 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	I just tried _BOSAMEP and it played mMaj7 as m7. I then disabled Natural Arrangement for the song (Song Settings) and it played fine. To Zacworld, one thing you could do for now is turn this feature off by default. Go to Options, Preferences, Arrange. In Natural Arrangement (lower left) select Disabled Unless Set for The Song. This makes it exactly the reverse of the default setting. You will hear what you write. If it helps, you're new and you could not reasonably have known this. The Natural Arrangement feature is fairly new and even the experienced users aren't positive what it does all the time. It's something you can turn on and try once your song is finished, and see if you like it. In this case, WITH THIS STYLE, you probably would not. Also read what the Help, Natural Arrangement for Current Song has to say. It's about half-way down. You'll see you can even turn the feature on or off for individual tracks. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? Noel96 #560006 10/20/19 12:55 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41 zacworld OP Enthusiast
OP zacworld Enthusiast Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41	Originally Posted By: Noel96 Hi zac, There are a couple of settings in BIAB that, by default, give BIAB the power to interpret chords and change them if the software thinks it's a smoother a progression. It sounds like you need to deactivate these settings. The image below shows these two settings. They are accessed by right-clicking on the chordsheet and then selecting "Song Settings". Brief explanation of settings... 1. Force Simple Arrangement = tells BIAB to play the chords entered. 2. Natural Arrangement = tells BIAB to consider the chords around a given chord and modify them if a better progression exists. Hope this helps, Noel That did it. After disabling Natural Arrangement it plays the chord now. Thanks Noel!

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? Matt Finley #560010 10/20/19 01:01 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41 zacworld OP Enthusiast
OP zacworld Enthusiast Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41	Originally Posted By: Matt Finley I just tried _BOSAMEP and it played mMaj7 as m7. I then disabled Natural Arrangement for the song (Song Settings) and it played fine. To Zacworld, one thing you could do for now is turn this feature off by default. Go to Options, Preferences, Arrange. In Natural Arrangement (lower left) select Disabled Unless Set for The Song. This makes it exactly the reverse of the default setting. You will hear what you write. If it helps, you're new and you could not reasonably have known this. The Natural Arrangement feature is fairly new and even the experienced users aren't positive what it does all the time. It's something you can turn on and try once your song is finished, and see if you like it. In this case, WITH THIS STYLE, you probably would not. Also read what the Help, Natural Arrangement for Current Song has to say. It's about half-way down. You'll see you can even turn the feature on or off for individual tracks. Thanks Matt, it's nice to know I can disable that globally & I just did so. I mostly write in a jazz idiom and want to hear the chords exactly as I put them in. I'm sure this natural arrangement feature must be useful for other purposes (I'll check out the Help), but I'm going to leave it off for now. Good to know how to switch it on and off in both places.

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? Matt Finley #560015 10/20/19 01:09 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41 zacworld OP Enthusiast
OP zacworld Enthusiast Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41	Originally Posted By: Matt Finley But the MIDI style should always work. I'm puzzled if it doesn't. Perhaps do an Options, Return to Factory Settings, Most. EDIT: there is another setting called Jazz Down the Chords. I'll find it later. Is it possible you turned this on for that song? I didn't even know about the Jazz Down The Chords setting...I have much reading to do

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #560016 10/20/19 01:09 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,315 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,315 Melbourne, Australia	I always have Natural Arrangement disabled. It generally provides very weird results. See this post: BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? AudioTrack #560018 10/20/19 01:17 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41 zacworld OP Enthusiast
OP zacworld Enthusiast Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41	Originally Posted By: VideoTrack I always have Natural Arrangement disabled. It generally provides very weird results. See this post: LOL saw your other post about it...that is ODD!

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #560022 10/20/19 02:25 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,034 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,034 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Some of us have requested to see behind the curtain. ps Jazz Down the Chords is for non-jazz folks who don't want any upper chord extensions played even as enhancements. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? Matt Finley #560116 10/21/19 07:08 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41 zacworld OP Enthusiast
OP zacworld Enthusiast Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 41	Originally Posted By: Matt Finley Some of us have requested to see behind the curtain. ps Jazz Down the Chords is for non-jazz folks who don't want any upper chord extensions played even as enhancements. What might be kind of cool is if BIAB could use the Natural Arrangement feature on part of a song while being able to disable it on other parts of the same song. I can picture wanting to hear some of the tamer parts smoothed out while wanting it to leave some of the other parts alone. Just a thought...

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #560119 10/21/19 07:37 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,693 Redondo Beach, Ca. jazzmammal Veteran
jazzmammal Veteran Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,693 Redondo Beach, Ca.	Try using Real Band instead. I don't think it it has those jazz down or natural arrangement features it's chord grid should do what you tell it to do period. RB is also very cool for many other reasons. Bob Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Re: Chord type won't play correctly - what to do? zacworld #560149 10/21/19 12:52 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,034 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,034 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Zacworld, you are correct. We have already suggested it would be nice to 1) know what’s being done by the feature and 2) be able to control it on an individual chord basis. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

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