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Realband development should be halted immediately and it should only be supported as a legacy product. Check. All resources should be put toward the flagship products, BIAB and RealTracks! Check. Spend time fixing bugs in BIAB and enhancing it with features like true inline bar-by-bar regeneration, more than 4 beats per measure, extending the 255 bar limit, allowing more tracks, etc. Check. I would bet money they don't have a single Realband user who chose it as their DAW separate from buying BIAB. I don't think you can buy RB as a separate program. Realband could never stand alone as a product I concur. don't continue to invest limited valuable resources in reinventing a wheel that already exists far beyond what you can create! Improve BIAB instead! Yep, that's the bottom line. Just put RB out of its misery and start developing BIAB, specially the VST, and team up with Presonus, Cakewalk and/or Reaper (those are the biggest DAW communities in the world) with the ultimate goal of Integration. 3xJohn: you know what they say: "Great Minds Think Alike"!  Yours very truly,
Last edited by LtKojak; 12/23/19 02:25 AM.
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I think PGMusic should incorporate some if not all of Pipeline's ideas. His GUI is exactly how a contemporary GUI should look.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Mario you mean VideoTrack's idea?
Pipeline revived the thread that was possibly unavailable to naughty users...
Last edited by Rustyspoon#; 12/23/19 12:33 PM.
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Pretty slick GUI setup, and impressive demo! Totally in agreement on the DOS aspect of the interface. Most of the younger crowd will have no clue what DOS was, but they will immediately be put off by anything with an "old school" look and feel, even if the thing could cook your breakfast and vacuum your floors.
I'm sure that PG Music is aware of the dilemma, and I'm good with the product for a couple years unless someone comes along with something better and that doesn't cost buco bucks.
I am very happy that the product continues to receive good support and bugfixes for the most important issues, and that there's a very active (but seemingly rather small) community of enthusiastic and talented folks here.
Ed Z Soundcloud profile https://soundcloud.com/user-415064494BIAB user since 2019 iPad Mini, Garageband for iOS, BIAB for Windows 2020 UltraPAK, Xtra Styles packs 6-9, Windows 10 Lenovo PC, Kontakt Player, SpitFire LABS, SampleTank 4 CS, some Soundfonts
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I tried for years n years n years to get RealBand better, I don't think that's gonna happen now as the Biab Plugin has killed that, why buy RealBand Ultra 64bit when you can have the Biab Plugin in you favorite DAW ? that energy would be better served in the Plugin.
You could of had a RealBand Ultra 64bit DAW that you would buy as it would of been the ONLY DAW with RealTracks/Drum etc.. generation directly in the DAW.
So that horse has bolted as we just get a couple of little things added each year to it, as we now we have a Plugin because of JJJ's original idea and then I just push that idea a fairrrrrrr bit and suggested ways to implement it.
I was a real nag to get VST transport SYNC implemented.
Yes concentrate on BB and the Plugin.
255 bar limit more, chords per bar, as Yul would say etc.. etc.. etc.. I've typed it all out sooooooooooooo many times.... I'm just so worn out from nagging 10 or more years on, I used to be MR Nice Guy believe it or not.
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I tried for years n years n years to get RealBand better, I don't think that's gonna happen now as the Biab Plugin has killed that, why buy RealBand Ultra 64bit when you can have the Biab Plugin in you favorite DAW ? that energy would be better served in the Plugin.
You could of had a RealBand Ultra 64bit DAW that you would buy as it would of been the ONLY DAW with RealTracks/Drum etc.. generation directly in the DAW.
So that horse has bolted as we just get a couple of little things added each year to it, as we now we have a Plugin because of JJJ's original idea and then I just push that idea a fairrrrrrr bit and suggested ways to implement it.
I was a real nag to get VST transport SYNC implemented.
Yes concentrate on BB and the Plugin.
255 bar limit more, chords per bar, as Yul would say etc.. etc.. etc.. I've typed it all out sooooooooooooo many times.... I'm just so worn out from nagging 10 or more years on, I use to be MR Nice Guy believe it or not.
I hear ya! You still are Mr. Nice Guy!
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I would actually support this path as long as two things happen. (Not that my support really matters)
1. That the development of BiaB is to get done things long ask for 255 bar limit, and not 50 new but poorly executed features. I’m all for really pouring resources in RT/RD development. That is actually why I continue to purchase the package.
2. Actually complete the plugin. Get everything planned working flawlessly. Implement pipelines Solo/mute/play idea. Make the real charts work in all DAWs. Lose the demo thing, it is like socks on a rooster.
Look I have said in several threads my feeling regarding RB/PT it seems like many don’t care. Just don’t be short sighted there are many who love and use it. But if this is as good as it is going to get so be it.
PLEASE COMPLETE THE DAW PLUGIN IT IS SO CLOSE. Make version 2 what everyone hoped for.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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....but our grandchildren and their children will have a blast with the new GUI. lol lol lol you have my sense of humor ! I'll have to reincarnate for that. Aspire to Inspire before you Expire. I tried very hard for a new RealBand 64bit C++ way back here https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=327412I suggested to reprogram the old Delphi (8.3 255) to cross-platform C++ this would give Win/Mac at the same time like other cross-apps. Adar has the plugin in C++ and seems to be able to quickly port the fixes/features both ways so they look identical and have the identical features.
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I suggested to reprogram the old Delphi (8.3 255) to cross-platform C++ Yeah, with the ultimate result of scaring the crap out the developers... I'm kidding, I'm kidding... but... am I...? 
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I got a little upset with 2020. I was hoping that after 64bit/VST push, there will be a progress made to GUI/Menu cleanup etc. And there was close to none... I just think some PG devs do not understand the power of good visual design and workflow. I am very sure that outdated design and ancient type menus are keeping younger folks / new users away. Sadly, it seems devs will never fully understand that. So in my mind there is only two solutions. 1) Bring a talented designer who knows a bit about ergonomics and let him/her "show the way" to make things pleasant looking and pleasant to work with. 2)Talk to people on this forum and gather best ideas and just make them happen. My 3 cents: No matter what direction of "design" BIAB will take, it has to be modular and scalable (see Cakewalk!) Where each user can design his/her workspace to their liking. If some really like the old 90's style, let them have the "90s template", but do not make everyone else "enjoy" this. Modular is a future proof (design) concept, as it gives user direct control over their workspace. Also, as a part of yearly package, couple of "NEW template features" can be included, these would be the easiest couple of "features" to make for the iconic "50"  Ok, I will stop bragging now. P.S. The RTs/RDs are great on 2020!
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Rustyspoon the more I think about what you call modular design the more I see what you are saying. I would support that, as long as it is simple and easy to use. I would hate it if many of the tools were so hidden I couldn’t find them with out a search warrant.
I do like videotracks GUI idea. It is simple and effective. Clean and neat.
One sad thing to me is here we are in the 2nd year of development and the plugin, thanks JJJ and Pipeline for this by the way. But here we are and it is still lacking some basic features needed When JJJ first wanted this I thought it might be a bad idea, for the same reasons that BiaB still has issue from the past.
Let me explain why I have resisted many of you guys ideas for major change. It is not because I think the ideas don’t have merit. Basically it is history of the DAWs I have used. My first full featured DAW was cakewalk music creator 1 then 2, 3, 5 they were decent. Then 1 upgraded to Sonar X1 thru those years I watch the users beg, fight, fuss, clamor for constant change to fit their viewpoint. It was always “ if it had this feature or that feature” or “if it looked or functioned like this program or that one” year after year and with each release the program became more and more bloated and buggy. So that I moved on as did many others.
With the Sonar X series one big grip was they wanted it to look different, so it did, then the fussing began about how many didn’t like it, and couldn’t find anything. Begging please for more changes. I would hate to see BiaB go down that rabbit hole, especially since it it a Faaaaaaaaar more complicated program than Sonar was/is. So I urge Simplicity and caution be careful what you ask for.
With that said I hope PGM does move toward simplifying the GUI going forward, and does fix the nagging old issues before adding any new features.
To me after listening to each user in this thread the focus should be
1. Fix bugs and limitations from the past. Redesign the GUI but carefully not radically.
2. Complete a fully working VSTi plugin (it is sooooo close)
255 bar limit, RC working, better visual on Solo/mute, no demo button,
Complete holds, shots, etc. make it read all .sgu/mgu file correctly
(Pipeline’s ideas) anything else can be for version 3
3. Focus on adding to and diversify the RT/RD development
The addition of Real Charts to RDs is brilliant and should be continued vigorously. This is a way to give those who want to mix multitrack drums the option I personally like that.
I don’t agree with completely suspending RB/PT dev. Stick Jeff Y in a back Room and let him roll up his sleeves and dig in. Start from scratch, leave the current programs as is for those who use them daily like silvertones. But to create a new modern DAW. I would love to see PT become a profit maker.
I want to thanks all who participated in this excellent discussion.
Last edited by Rob Helms; 12/24/19 02:45 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Ha. Couldn’t find anything in the rewrite of SONAR? Been there.
When PG Music did revise the GUI two years ago, they thoughtfully left the old one and provided buttons and Ctrl+T until we could adapt to the new one. I haven’t looked back since, but it’s nice to know I could. I realize that wasn’t the serious GUI redo many want, but the approach to implementation was the right idea.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt, only modular and scalable GUI will stop the GUI questions /requests for "good" because anyone would be able to make / design their screen set the way they see fit. At least the front page (THE FACE of BIAB!)
P.S. I would love to have an auto-hide items too as Videotrack suggested. I thought it was a very neat idea.
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Oh, yes, a very old request.
Yes, VideoTrack has some outstanding ideas in his video.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Interesting thread, also a very old and been there, done that thread. These ideas go back 10-15 years. I think Sixchannel represents the vast majority of current users. It's hard to come up with a number but my gut tells me it's like 80-90%. Iow, nobody cares about all these high level enhancements.
They want it simple, they're not studio pros, they're just having fun at home making some music. The more stuff that gets added the less the average user wants it. Standard users don't want or need a stupid DAW! How many users on the forums comment they've never even looked at RB and don't use a DAW? Many, many of them. Biab as it is is plenty good enough.
This is the way it has been and is the way it is now. However, what about the future? That's a very good question and I have talked about that many times. It was mentioned that S1, Cakewalk and Cubase is the majority of DAW users. I doubt that but can't prove it. I know at the pro studio level Pro Tools still has that market locked up. I watched a two hour vid about 4 years ago launching Ableton Live 9 and they were congratulating themselves for reaching the 7 million user mark. They were bragging they were the largest home studio DAW worldwide but of course that's the company saying that so who knows? 7 million is a lot of users.
That got me into investigating exactly what Ableton Live is and how it's used. It's all about live DJ's doing huge live shows remixing existing hit song tracks given by other stars specifically for that purpose. What us grandpa's don't get is they're not remixing at home and simply playing the track at a show. No, the remixing IS the show! That's what the audience came to see. One DJ doing his take on those tracks. Another DJ will do it totally differently and that's the show. That kind of thing is about as far from what users use Biab for as you can get.
As much as I've tried I cannot see any kind of way Biab could be used for that kind of EDM, Hip Hip, Trance remixing kind of stuff. Ableton was purpose built for that. The plugin could be useful to create some new source tracks but man, the kids already have an incredible pool of possible source tracks already, I kinda doubt they need Biab for more. As for popularity, when I go on trips to resorts a couple of times a year, I check out the clubs in the resort, in town or on a cruise ship. It's all that kind of EDM dance music. I mean 100%.
I will specifically talk to millenials about this because they know I'm a musician and if I express a sincere respectful interest and not have an attitude, they will open up and talk about it. I can even name drop some famous DJ's and discuss them. When they say they're going to a dance club, EDM and current pop music is all there is, period. When we say on this forum there's no more venues to play, they've all dried up that's true for us. Not true for them. There are tons of dance clubs all over the place, just not our kind of dance clubs.
My opinion about Biab? I think PGM has a great niche in traditional songs using traditional instruments. That market is small in percentage when compared to the huge overall music market but still large enough to have a viable business going forward. There is enough of those types of songs on the current Billboard Top 100 to make Biab useful to younger people. Here's the problem though.
Young people think Biab is being used in nursing homes or something. All it's good for is for grandpa to mess around with ancient music styles in his retirement. If a 25 year old visits this forum what do they see? Exactly that, a whole bunch of retired grandpas talking about 50 year old music.
Somehow, at some time in the future the GUI must be modernized like we've all said. I completely agree the plugin is the future not RB. I think RB is pretty good, I don't see all the issues others talk about and I use it a lot but I'm definitely in the minority there.
The website must be modernized to feature modern styles and all the demos must be modernized to reflect modern musical tastes and feature young people creating modern songs. They can still talk about all the classic styles we all love but it can't be the primary focus, the modern styles must come first. That will completely alienate all of us grandpa's out there who hate most modern music.
That's the tightrope PG is walking right now and that's my heavily discounted 2 cents.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Bob, fun read / perspective. This: "Young people think Biab is being used in nursing homes or something" LOL!!! This is funny, but so not true! Masters and craftsman of live music art, will remain masters. These are folks who are on the Real Tracks and Drums. There will always be a demand for good Rock, Pop, Country, Jazz, Latin and other genres. Maybe new "styles" of music pushed them aside a little, but it is just a hype thing. I predict in relatively short time all that EDM stuff will just become another genre....Like Disco for example. Here is an example of reverse tendency. When many thought the age of the rock was rolling down, Nirvana emerged. I do not believe that Cobain "invented" something new. Stuff was there for at least a couple of decades, but he made those kids listen! And hundreds of alike bands started to play "similar" music in their garages. That passion lasted for quite some time, and many great Rock bands came out from that period. Maybe I am wrong, but it seemed to me that even dusted titans of Rock like Aerosmith, Metallica, Guns&Roses returned to their glossy state. It is like if you eat potato chips and drink soda, over time and when your belly starts to ache, you will develop cravings for carrots and celery. And wise versa, when you eat healthy, there is always a craving for a tasty slice of pizza. Pendulum. Mario, from the forum, said something in another topic that got stock in my head: Cross Pollination. I think that this phrase is the Future Of BIAB (and Plugin). I am sorry, but I will repeat myself(like a broken record ), not for the forum members, but in hope that somebody from PG will read it. Tracks / your session musicians are amazing and unique, functionality is 85% there. Your interface is scaring people away. Fix it for good. Make it flexible and attractive and you will see more traffic. The strangest thing to me is that usually it is the other way around. A pretty looking piece of software lacks the core "features". BIAB has more than enough features, but lacks ergonomics and looks. Happy Holidays!
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When PG Music did revise the GUI two years ago, they thoughtfully left the old one and provided buttons and Ctrl+T until we could adapt to the new one. I haven’t looked back since, but it’s nice to know I could. I'm on the other side of that coin, Matt. I prefer the older view and I occasionally venture into the full-screen mode. Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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I have read the first 3 pages of answers to this post, so I don't know if anybody else alredy said this: the future of Biab is some sort of implementation-integration with ARA. Studio One was the first using it with Melodyne. All the non-professional or at least less exigent can use RealBand just as it is now. But I hope PG-Music won't lose time updating it as it would be useless for everybody. Developing an ARA compatible BIAB would be the future as a DAW like Studio One would become RealBand on steroyds.
Sergino
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VST3 plugins on Studio One Pro 6.1
Windows 11(SSD) - AMD Radeon R9 5950X - 32GB RAM
MOTU: 2408 MkIII - 24i - Traveler - MIDI Express XT
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I know nothing about ARA so I just looked it up. Wikipedia says this:
Audio Random Access (commonly abbreviated to ARA) is an extension for audio plug-in interfaces, such as AU, VST and RTAS, allowing them to exchange a greater amount of audio information with digital audio workstation (DAW) software. It was developed in a collaboration between Celemony Software and PreSonus.
ARA increases the amount of communication possible between digital audio workstation (DAW) software and a plug-in, allowing them to exchange key information, such as audio data, tempo, pitch, and rhythm, for an entire song, rather than just at the moment of playback.
This increased amount of information exchange, and availability of data from other points in time, removes the need for audio material to be transferred to & from the plug-in, allowing that plug-in to be used as a more closely integrated part of the DAW's overall interface
Others have mentioned how cool ARA is. Here's the question, if it was specifically developed by PreSonus and Celemony, how would PG get involved? Is it open source even though it's a private collaboration between two companies or is it available under license or what?
The next obvious question is what programming changes would be necessary for Biab to take advantage of this even if it is made available either for free or at a cost that PG would consider to be affordable?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I have read the first 3 pages of answers to this post, so I don't know if anybody else alredy said this: the future of Biab is some sort of implementation-integration with ARA. Studio One was the first using it with Melodyne. All the non-professional or at least less exigent can use RealBand just as it is now. But I hope PG-Music won't lose time updating it as it would be useless for everybody. Developing an ARA compatible BIAB would be the future as a DAW like Studio One would become RealBand on steroyds. Are you sure about Studio One was the first using it with Melodyne? I was using Melodyne vai ARA in Sonar before I even knew Studio One existed.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
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