PG Music Home Forums General Discussion User Showcase ♫ In The Still Of This Gentle Night [...a co-write with Steve Young]

Noel (and Steve),

Stunning tune—really pretty song. Love the vocal. Love the subtlety of the production—soft, rich and thoroughly compelling. Beautiful! An inspiring and humbling piece of work. Congrats on this one, guys. Great work!

My best regards,

Deej

P.S. to Noel: Belated thanks for your comments on my song "Lonley Tonight"--I haven't been able to get to the forum for a couple weeks now, and I really don't want to bump up the song. But I thought your discussion of rhyme scheme using the Dylan tune was very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

One could only expect greatness from a pairing like you two and
this certainly does not disappoint.

Noel, after years of listening to you we have to say that this vocal
performance is stellar...amongst your best. Out front vocals need
to be good and this is a great example of how that goodness
can work.

As Janice said, "both of our mamas would have loved this song. It is
sweet and I love the music box."

Production wise? What to say. Midi alone is beyond our pay grade And
that many tracks? I get lost after four or five. It's a brilliant production with
remarkable midi performances to support the excellent write and vocal.

A showcase on the showcase.

Many kudos y'all!

J&B


PS BTW us Mac folks have done many collabs with PC folks...the power of BiaB.

Noel / Steve

Just a beautiful piece of music - expertly done. The intro is stunning.

Deserves all the prior accolades and more. The vocal is lovely.

(Liked Ray's comments about the children in NSW & VIC.)

Peter

Dear Noel, dear Steve,

let's not quibble about percentages of who did what: This wonderful collaboration wouldn't have been as great as it is without either of you!

The mere listen is already such a treat, because everything is sounding so brilliantly, everything goes to gether so well. The vocals shine and transport the intended feel so amazingly well.

But when I read about that explosion of MIDI tracks I hardly couldn't believe it: The song comes along so pure and natural that you would never notice the huge amount of tracks and synthesized sounds.

All I can say is, 'Hats off' to both of you: A wonderful song in all respects - like I said: A treat !!!

All the best,

Stefan

Hi floyd,

Thanks for taking the time. I hadn't thought of these lyrics in terms of being a "Parent's Prayer" but that really is what they are all about! I like it.

I agree with you. Steve's orchestration is up there with the best and probably is the best that's been in the forum. He did it so quickly too! The first time I heard where he'd taken my words and music, I was speechless. He raised everything to level that I can only dream about achieving.

And the way he treated my vocals was awesome! Hopefully he'll let you know how he did that.

Thanks again for dropping in and I hope you have a great 2020!

All the best,
Noel

Hey Noel,

I sure do like listening to your singing. There's a quality about it that I find both relaxing and pleasing. The song was equally good and the production excellent. The melody sounds a lot like "The First Noel." Maybe you or somebody else mentioned that, I didn't notice. Of course, it's public domain, so no problems.

Whoa...
To me it seems you & Steve have produced
A beautiful Christmas song
Masquerading as a gentle lullaby.

I don't know if you planned it that way...
But that is what I see in the lyrics...
And hear in the music.

Neat...
Congratulations to both of you on a great composition...
I like it!

Hi Jim and Tunemonger!

LOL! I was wondering when someone would notice that there's a hint of "The First Noël". Congratlations on being the winner, Tunemonger!

When I wrote the melody and chords, I was completely unaware of this aspect of the song and it wasn't until I heard Steve's orchestration that it occurred to me. I was stunned at how easy it is to subconsciously use a theme without realising it. I mentioned it to Steve at the time.

• If you listen to the second half of Steve's instrumental section, you'll definitely hear that it starts out like "The First Noël" -- I think this was Steve being a bit playful!

Anyway... because, exactly as Tunemonger says, "The First Noël" is public domain it wasn't an issue to leave it as is so I just thought I'd see who noticed it. It might have been that my thinking was a bit cheeky, too, because I also liked that "The First Noël" matched my name

If you listen closely, though, "Gentle Night" is only like the "The First Noël" for a few reasons that are not copyrightable and one reason that probably wouldn't be considered impinging on copyright.

It's interesting to look at this from a copyright perspective, though, because there are lessons to learn. The similarities/differences are...

1. The both "Gentle Night" and "Noël" are in 3/4 time.

• Not copyrightable

2. I used the key of C major for "Gentle Night" and "Noël" is often performed in this key as it's comfortable for choral versions of the song.

• Not copyrightable.

3. The chord progression I've used for "Gentle Night" is similar to ones that often occur with some versions and some bars of "Noël".

• Not copyrightable.

4. The melody for "Noël" has two pickup notes (E to D) and then climbs from middle C to C one octave above in scale-wise motion.

(i.e. melody = ED|CDEFGAB|CBA|G)

The stating melody for "Gentle Night" has two pickup notes (F to D) and then climbs up the C major chord arpeggio from middle C to C one octave above.

(i.e. melody = FD|CCEGGGC|CBA|G

• The note-pattern for "Gentle Night" shouldn't impinge on copyright because the note-patterns between the two are distinctly different both rhythmically and melodically with the exception of |CBA|G.

5. The four notes for the phrase "silently sleep" (Gentle Night) and "angels did say" (Noël) are the same. This occurs on note CBA|G in both songs.

• I'm not sure if only four notes being identical, and in commonly used descending scale-wise motion, is enough to impinge on copyright... maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Fortunately I don't have to worry about it.

6. The rest of the notes in the two A-sections, or verses, are different from one another.

• Doesn't affect copyright.

7. The B-section that begins with "You fill my heart..." is completely different from anything in "Noël".

• Doesn't affect copyright.

Working my way through the above was very useful and it helped clarify my thinking in many ways. Thank you for that. The moral of the story is that it's very easy to end up creating something that you think is original but it might not be.

These days, when I listen to the song, I no longer hear "Noël" except in the back half of Steve's instrumental section. When others listen, I suspect that "Noël" is noticeable because the little bits that are reminiscent of this carol are repeated at the beginning of each A-section and that the ear focuses on and anticipates these. This then over-rides the many differences between the two songs.

Thanks for listening and for commenting, and thanks for noticing "The First Noël", too

I hope that 2020 is a great year for you both,
Noel

Hi beatmaster,

Thank you for having a listen. I sincerely appreciate it and I did get your PM... thank you.

All the best for 2020,
Noel

Hi Martin,

Thank you! I'm glad that you had time to pass through the thread and to listen on Soundcloud. Your comments really made me smile. Thanks for the hate <laugh> That's a first for me.

May lots of good things come you way in 2020,
Noel

Hi James,

It's good to see you. Thank you finding time to visit and to give the song a run through. I'm glad you like it. I have to say that "STUNNING" -- all in uppercase -- is the first word that sprang to my mind, too, when I heard Steve's arrangement.

All the best for 2020,
Noel

This is beautiful guys!!! I love the orchestration and the feel and emotion of the whole production!! Some wonderful lyrics!! My favorite lines:

I hope that life is gracious
And that you’ll out-shine the sun

WONDERFUL!!!! Take care. Greg

Noel and Steve,
sweet collaboration!

Beautifully crafted and performed tune. Listens very well. Feels as a lot of thought went into it. Do not take this as offence, I almost fell asleep listening to it... So it is WORKING!
I think you should definitely collaborate on least couple of more, to see where it takes you.
Thank you for sharing!

Misha.

Hi Robert,

Thank you for your comments. They honestly mean a lot coming from such an advanced wordsmith as yourself.

I usually spend quite a bit of time getting the right lyrics so that they they fit musically and they give the meaning I'm after. It's like a jigsaw puzzle for me and I really get enthusiastic working my way to the end product. While this is all happening, though, inside my head is a bit of a mess as I go over and over and over words and phrases! LOL. It occupies most of my travel time to and from work

This song would be nothing without Steve. He took it up into the stratosphere! The lift that his arrangement and instrumental work gave to the words and melody was nothing short of outstanding.

Thank you for visiting!
Noel

P.S. I hope 2020 is a great year for you and your family.

Hi, all! Just a day or two after I turned over this final production of this song to Noel, I started getting very sick with a bad cold, and lost my "clear" hearing. I have finally recovered, so I am able to start listening to some of the fine work showcased here...

First of all, thanks so much for all the very kind words I have read here about our song. I want to pay tribute to Noel for his outstanding efforts on this song. Noel is truly one of the kindest, most positive people on this forum (or anywhere, for that matter!) I just love the lyrics that he wrote in this song. It is very rare that a song lyric can successfully stand on its own, without the music bed underneath it. But this does. The symbolism, and analogies used in this poem are so strong and positive. This could be read to a child, as well as sung to the child. Noel, I am honored to have been able to play a part in bringing this into musical light!

In answer to a couple of the questions...

Rayc - You have such a good ear! You hear things that most don't, you must have very sensitive ears. (That's a good thing!) Regarding the "quality" of the windup for the music box in the intro, both the windup AND the music box were intentionally placed in the song as lo-fi sounds, to fit the "scenery" of the song. A music box by nature is a lo-fi instrument, and I wanted to give the feeling, as if you are standing by a cradle, winding up a music box to play for a sleepy child. So this is intentional. Also, it's a matter of taste, and anyone is completely free to have a different opinion. So thank you for giving such an astute observation. I do truly appreciate your input!

Floyd - You asked how I got the "sound" of Noel's voice to sit in the mix, so here goes...
First, Noel has a very nice voice to work with. That's important! He sent me a "dry" recording of his vocals, and his recording was well done with very nice levels for me to start with.
I have a Universal Audio Apollo Twin preamp, with 2 processers, as well as a UA AUD-2 Octo Satellite with 8 processors. So I have a total of 10 processors to help manage the load on (only the UAD) plugins. Don't worry, I could get approximately the same sound with a much leaner system, with a little work. I just have this equipment, so I use it.

Here's what I did with them...
There are 14 plugins on Noel's vocals. Please don't let that scare anyone. I have access to a lot of really good plugins and I am comfortable with how to use them, so I use them. The key is, I use each plugin very subtly, and sparingly. I only use plugins that work with the sound I am looking for, so in this case, I ended up with the 14 that I used. I'm really only interested in the "cumulative" results. I'm not really "married" to any one plugin.

So here are the plugins I used...
1. UA Antares Auto Tune - VERY lightly used! Probably not even enough to make much differencew.
2. UA Manley VOXBOX - an extremely well done plugin emulation of the renowned Manley Voxbox vocal channel strip. Tube-based sound with Elop compressor, Tube Pre, Passive Pultec style EQ, Elop De-esser/Limiter run through Tube Circuit Line Amplifier. This plugin does add some good analog character. Again, I use it sparingly - tune in the eq I'm looking for with a tad of compression, and overall "tube" sound.
3. UA Precision De-Esser - This is the "primary" de-sser I use. Again used sparingly to keep as natural a sound as possible while losing some of the harsh sounds.
4. Waves MannyM Reverb - This is one of Waves' reverbs that has some nice hall/room/plate/ambience options, along with some eq capabilities, and compression as well. I use enough reverb to make it noticeable when you turn it off, more than noticeable when you turn it on. (I used a little more on Noel's voice, to help some of the natural "piercing" of his nice tenor voice to be tamed into the mix.
5. IK Multimedia TR Satx - just a tad of saturation (I used one of the tape settings) to help the voice dominate, while fitting into the mix. Again, subtle use.
6. Waves CLA Vocals - This is a Waves vox channel strip that I have been using for years. I'm just comfortable with it, and used to it. Has a nice top and low end eq adjustment, with a nice compressor - This is where use compression to really bring "up" the "sound" I am looking for. Again, I am not looking for a noticeable "compressed" sound, as much as I am looking for the "feeling" that I am after in vocals. Then, this channel has some nice tight reverb sound and a decent slap.
7. Ableton Convolution Reverb - This is a nice room convolution reverb that I found, and liked how it sounded on Noel's voice. Just enough to sweeten it up.
8. UA bx-Refinement - This is another saturation plugin that really focuses on taking some of the harshness out of a sound. It also has a nice Presence adjustment to add back the upper highs that might be taken out in the process.
9. Waves Aphex Vintage Exciter - Very sparingly used to bring in some of the "character" of this legendary aural exciter.
10. UA Oxford Inflator - Sparingly used to "thicken" up the vocal sound. This plugin increases loudness without sacrificing dynamic range.
11. Waves Vocal Rider - Again, sparingly used to help "keep" the vocals on top.
12. Proximity - I came across this plugin years ago. I have used it a lot. It just does something to the sound that I like. Don't have enough time or room to explain here. It is a free plugin, you can find online if anyone is interested (I'm not at all involved in it!) I think it is Tokyo Dawn Records Proximity. I've never had any problems with it. Use at your own risk
13. Waves Saphira - This is another "saturation" type plugin, but gives a lot more controls as to Body and Edge, as well as some eq and tape emulation settings. Very powerful plugin - Sparingly used!
14 FiDef - This is the secret sauce, and my newest toy! I really love this plugin! I stumbled across this process a few years ago, but it was never available as a plugin until recently. This is a new process that adds noise to a sound, to emulate a more true analog sound. It's almost subliminal, but yet it makes a noticeable difference to the sound. There are only 4 settings to it (Default, Upper Mid Air, Warm and Pushed, and High End Spread). I used the Warm and Pushed setting for Noel's voice. It just really makes his voice come alive in the mix.

Well, there you have it! I am sorry if I went into too much detail. I figure those with "short attention spans" have stopped reading far before now. And those of you still reading may appreciate what little I have to contribute. If you can use anything I have shared, fine. If not, that's fine too! The main thing is, if it sounds good, it is good!

Thanks so much!

Steve

Hi Scott,

Thank you for popping in. And thanks for taking the time to listen and post your thoughts.

All the best for 2020,
Noel

Hi Deej,

Thank you for taking time to listen. I appreciate the comments.

I'm not sure how much credit I deserve with this final product. When you look at Steve's post below and see what he's used in addition to all the MIDI instruments he played, my mind reels. I'm still finding it difficult to grasp that he used 14 presets on my vocals! Isn't it amazing what electronics makes possible nowadays.

Thanks again and I'm glad you saw the other post.

All the best,
Noel

Noel and Steve,

Wow, this is fantastic!

I read your production notes, just amazing how much has gone into this piece. Very impressive to say the least!

And then I read everything that Steve did to your vocal. 14 plugins?! Such attention to detail, I'm pretty much blown away to be honest.

Nice writing, Noel, you are a true master of that craft, and I really like your vocal too.

Great way to start off the year, congrats to both of you!

Hi Janice and Bud,

Good to see you and thank you!. I appreciate your comments.

Like you really good MIDI is also beyond my paygrade. That said, I'm glad that Steve is around. He certainly is a MIDI power user and seemingly fearless when it comes to working with tracks. I admire both these abilities greatly.

Quite honestly, I'd break out in a cold sweat for sure if I had to think about mixing 30+ tracks... and all those plugins on my vocals! No wonder I sound good! I'm pretty sure that I couldn't work with that many plugins on a single track.

So, after doing this with Steve, I've become more aware of my limitations so I'll have to work with him again, now

Thanks for visit and may 2020 be kind a generous to you both,
Noel

This piece is excellent in EVERY aspect! The care that went into the production here must have been very time consuming! The results are fantastic! My hat is off to you and Steve for what you ended up with! It's a beautiful tune that is sung perfectly and is an overall very pleasant listen! Thanks, Torrey