1) enter my chords and generate for the first time 2) select bars I want to regenerate 3) right-click those bars and select regenerate for the track I want to change which changes ONLY THE SELECTED BARS ON THE SELECTED TRACK 4) implement full undo so I can return if I want
With RealBand I can regenerate just 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 beats in a bar, in Biab it selects 1 bar at a time, would you leave it as one bar or would there be a way to select beat to beat without it affecting other functions that use the selection like copy, loop etc.. maybe Alt+drag to highlight beat to beat ??
With RealBand I can regenerate just 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 beats in a bar, in Biab it selects 1 bar at a time, would you leave it as one bar or would there be a way to select beat to beat without it affecting other functions that use the selection like copy, loop etc.. maybe Alt+drag to highlight beat to beat ??
At beat level would certainly be superior to bar level. I would prefer the functionality delivered by RealBand to be utilized.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
And anyway, your description of BIAB always playing something different isn't a benefit, rather, it is one of the main problems in an actual crummy band...the guys can't remember their parts and always play things different when you (and the listeners) want them to play it the same!
John! Wrong! Don't be so literal! You haven't read what Peter has written about that! Argue with him about it! Gee, writing with all these exclamation points is tedious doncha think!
And anyway, your description of BIAB always playing something different isn't a benefit, rather, it is one of the main problems in an actual crummy band...the guys can't remember their parts and always play things different when you (and the listeners) want them to play it the same!
John! Wrong! Don't be so literal! You haven't read what Peter has written about that! Argue with him about it! Gee, writing with all these exclamation points is tedious doncha think!
Bob! Sorry this is becoming a habit..
Bob
I've already experienced this and it is NOT desirable to me. Not in the least!!! If I hear the guitar player OR BIAB play a riff I like for the song I don't wanna hear something different next time!!!
Here, have a few more you can use in your response!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Isn’t this recent sub-discussion irrelevant? If you like having BIAB play the same way each time, freeze the tracks. If you don’t, enjoy the new changes the program provides each regeneration. But let’s not muddy the request, which is bar-by-bar regeneration in BIAB for whatever reason you want it.
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JJJ, This: "3) right-click those bars and select regenerate for the track I want to change which changes ONLY THE SELECTED BARS ON THE SELECTED TRACK"
Having hard time imagining this. I get how you would select a "bar(s)" but how would you select a specific track to regenerate? I assume you click the actual single track tab after you make your bar selection?
I guess, your request by default assumes all tracks will remain the same (Frozen!) after first generation, only allowing for selective regeneration.
Another thought why "partial bar freeze" might work better. Imagine a song with 3 choruses / 3 verses. If you want to regenerate all 3 choruses at once, you simply would select stuff you want to change,freezing the rest. A bar selection in MULTIPLE places would be needed. A tool that was available in many graphics programs for many years "Inverse Selection" also might be a very useful.
*And with partial freeze, you can have the option to "unfreeze" all to have the effect of randomness for the whole track, as we have now.
*There also should be an option to regenerate all tracks within selected bars.
To me and I am sure to many average users, just logic is not enough. It has to be done nicely, with design in mind, not just a function. Ease of use! The "feature" that was currently implemented, "multiriffs for BIAB"., Idea is good, implementation, well...to put it gently, desires maturity. What I am trying to say, just to "have the feature" is not enough, it has to be thought out well. To me, this (bar by bar or partial freeze) is a HUGE feature, and if it ever gets implemented, I want it implemented the right way.
JJJ, This: "3) right-click those bars and select regenerate for the track I want to change which changes ONLY THE SELECTED BARS ON THE SELECTED TRACK"
Having hard time imagining this. I get how you would select a "bar(s)" but how would you select a specific track to regenerate? I assume you click the actual single track tab after you make your bar selection?
I guess, your request by default assumes all tracks will remain the same (Frozen!) after first generation, only allowing for selective regeneration.
Another thought why "partial bar freeze" might work better. Imagine a song with 3 choruses / 3 verses. If you want to regenerate all 3 choruses at once, you simply would select stuff you want to change,freezing the rest. A bar selection in MULTIPLE places would be needed. A tool that was available in many graphics programs for many years "Inverse Selection" also might be a very useful.
*And with partial freeze, you can have the option to "unfreeze" all to have the effect of randomness for the whole track, as we have now.
*There also should be an option to regenerate all tracks within selected bars.
To me and I am sure to many average users, just logic is not enough. It has to be done nicely, with design in mind, not just a function. Ease of use! The "feature" that was currently implemented, "multiriffs for BIAB"., Idea is good, implementation, well...to put it gently, desires maturity. What I am trying to say, just to "have the feature" is not enough, it has to be thought out well. To me, this (bar by bar or partial freeze) is a HUGE feature, and if it ever gets implemented, I want it implemented the right way.
My goal is to try and define the simplest possible pseudo-code outline that just cannot be misinterpreted! I thought previous discussions we have had on this forum were pretty clear as to what was desirable for bar-by-bar regeneration so, frankly, I was surprised and disappointed with the complicated "solution" they came up with.
To clarify, I am talking about a new feature for Regen that does not change ANYTHING with the current Generate & Play feature. In fact, it does not change ANYTHING else in the program to ensure no side effects we don't want or need!
You select your bars and then right-click and the popup has the following choices, ------------------------ CLICK TRACK BELOW TO REGENERATE SELECTED BARS ------------------------ 0 Bass 0 Piano 0 Drums 0 Guitar 0 Strings 0 Melody 0 Soloist ------------------------
You select one and BAM it regenerates ONLY the selected bars on ONLY the selected track. No button to click after selecting. Just select bars and then select track and BAM...it regenerates ONLY what you chose and returns you to the program. Now you are sitting right where you were before with NOTHING changed except what you chose to change. You can listen to the changed section and if you like it freeze that track and save your file. If you don't like it select the bars and repeat.
To me this seems so simple from a user's perspective and not difficult to program.
With RealBand I can regenerate just 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 beats in a bar, in Biab it selects 1 bar at a time, would you leave it as one bar or would there be a way to select beat to beat without it affecting other functions that use the selection like copy, loop etc.. maybe Alt+drag to highlight beat to beat ??
My thought is you probably keep it bar-by-bar instead of beat-by-beat with an eye toward later enhancing it to that level. Keep it simple to actually get it done.
But with that said, I don't know enough about how RealTrack riffs are stored and optimized. Are they mostly stored in even bar increments? In other words, one riff is one bar long while another is two bars long, etc. Or, are they random lengths? This would be a major factor in getting them to line up correctly.
If we knew more about how the RealTracks are sliced and stored we could apply that to our proposed solution but lacking that info I think bar-by-bar may be the much simpler direction.
However! If you change anything anywhere,shot, hold, chord etc. before or after "bar-to bar" section, you brand new regeneration section would probably melt away, surrendering to randomness. That is where I believe selected bar freeze would be very handy.
JJJ, the idea of bar-to-bar deserves +10, but I am worried that if it is not fully thought out, it might be more complicated to change things later in the game....that might be MUCH easier to add right from the start
.....However! If you change anything anywhere,shot, hold, chord etc. before or after "bar-to bar" section, you brand new regeneration section would probably melt away, surrendering to randomness. That is where I believe selected bar freeze would be very handy..
You will have to elaborate a bit more on that or post some pics. Do you mean after you generated the new bars you may want to change something else ??? Would you not freeze the track after the new bars are generated that you like, then if you find another section that needs new bars generated you would just un-freeze change the chord and re-generate those bars then freeze the track. Not sure how you would keep track of selective bar freezing for every track ?
Pipeline, You have to forgive my drawing. The point I am trying to make is that a user should be able to retain re-generated sections and still be able to change other places in the project without fear that generated part(s) will "go away". That is why you need PG Bottox-selected bar freeze.
If you freeze all, then = game over for this project. You can not change anything.
If you unfreeze and change a chord anywhere, I believe whole thing (whole project) will re-generate once you hit play button., Most likely losing your previous by bar generation.
Pipeline, You have to forgive my drawing. The point I am trying to make is that a user should be able to retain re-generated sections and still be able to change other places in the project without fear that generated part(s) will "go away". That is why you need PG Bottox-selected bar freeze.
If you freeze all, then = game over for this project. You can not change anything.
If you unfreeze and change a chord anywhere, I believe whole thing (whole project) will re-generate once you hit play button., Most likely losing your previous by bar generation.
Yes, I can see that there is going to be a requirement to have a protection mechanism so that your previously selected favorite bars are not affected by a chord change somewhere else in the song, which then causes the entire track to be regenerated.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Pipelines idea is good. A display shows specifically what segments have been generated (historically) and allows those bars to be frozen (the orange could change to blue for the frozen track segments).
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Pipeline, that looks like an interesting creature.
I was actually thinking in simpler terms. Follow the idea that JJJ described as "Bam bam..."(bar-to-bar) Then just selecting these bars, once happy with generation, right click---> "apply glue" so the whole bar block(s) including generation stays in place, regardless of any other changes to arrangement.
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I thought previous discussions we have had on this forum were pretty clear as to what was desirable for bar-by-bar regeneration so, frankly, I was surprised and disappointed with the complicated "solution" they came up with.
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