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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457 |
Face it. It's time for a major facelift. Like what M$ did when they went from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95. It might have pissed off 3.1 users, but it was a game changer that benefited all M$ users in the long run. (I was an OS/2 user at the time, so I didn't care much one way or another, since I was using a superior product)
Anyway, the same will happen with Band in a Box users. It will grow in use by leaps and bounds. The platform now is bug-ridden and rickety. It's past time for a clean sheet of paper. One of my biggest pet peeves is being stuck with 16bit/44.1Hz when the rest of the world has been using 24bit/96kHz (and higher) for over 20 years.
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Yawn. Over and over and over...
I don't disagree but jeesh, how many times to we have to write this? Is it really necessary, I would say just give it a rest. Nothing's been done about these things as long as I've been on the forum. I've written all of these points too in who knows how many threads for years and years and years and, and...
It's pointless imho, PGM is well aware, they'll either do it or they won't. Until then get used to Real Band, it does address some of these issues but not all.
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 01/11/20 08:03 PM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Posts: 457 |
You talking to me, or another Mike? I don't recall ever having RB crash on me. I'm just not used to the interface and I feel disinclined to have to learn how to use another DAW product right now. If I'm gonna spend the time to learn another DAW, it's probably gonna be Reaper.
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Oh, must be having a senior moment. I just realized I still had time to edit that part out so no harm, no foul.<grin>
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Joined: Feb 2015
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Maybe the plugin code can be added to Ardour to create a new 64 bit cross-platform RealBand DAW, it works with scripting like Reaper so no more workarounds just create a script to do what you need. Get it to play from RAM but then be able to write to a tracks also.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 167
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 167 |
THe codebase of BiaB is so old that you can actually see it. Just have a look at those dialogs *  From a programmers standpoint it would be tempting to start from scratch and leave all the legacy code behind. But this is only for the fun of it. Unless you have a really big team it's bound ti fail. So in reality it's only possible to do iterative changes. Depending on nature and quality of the code this takes time. If you are understaffed it will take a very long time. Masi * I hope they can use different dialogs in the VSTi. To me all of they dialogs are an example of bad usability (too many issues to list them all in this post).
Band-in-a-Box, BiaB-plugin, Reaper, Win10 64bit, i7-8565U, 24GB RAM (always latest versions)
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Journeyman
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I'll make a prediction right now -- and this is coming from a person who's been using BiaB for 22 years now, and still using it because there is nothing else that can do what it does. Someday that will change. Someday a bright group of young turks is gonna figure out a way to do what BiaB does, but in a slick, streamlined, bug-free interface. And it will spell the beginning of the end of BiaB. Now, I hope this doesn't happen. But I suspect it will. Because that is simply the nature of things.
Last edited by cooltouch; 01/12/20 07:07 AM.
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+1 Very, very true! But it can change in a better direction for BIAB with a few efficient steps and relatively small cost. Mainly: 1) make the interface (Design !!!) and workflow! as smooth as possible using old code. 2) make a demo version of the program with included VERY SIMPLE, in your face" video to start things, for somebody who never used BIAB. 3)Make the the initial package even "lighter" (less RT's) and cheaper, so more people can try it. 4)Advertise better, there are so many channels... 5)Make upgrades less complicated (all these choices!) 6) And if you see proper traction, hire somebody with proper set of skills who can orchestrate a fast and painless re-write
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Someday that will change. Someday a bright group of young turks is gonna figure out a way to do what BiaB does, but in a slick, streamlined, bug-free interface.
And it will spell the beginning of the end of BiaB. Anything's possible but I doubt it. What's the heart of Biab? Styles. Creating a chord track like Studio One has or even having the ability to alter chords using Melodyne or whatever is nice but that has nothing to do with styles and how to use them inside a DAW to create a complete song arrangement. People see how a DAW can take individual audio/midi tracks and allow you to move them around to create a song and think that's what Biab does. No it's not. As you know Biab does all the creation and arranging for you using pretty smart music theory based AI. This is a very small niche market I doubt it would catch any "young turks" attention. Most young musicians are all about loop based "bedroom producer" stuff. The closest thing I've seen in all the different plugin's and music programs to Biab is Jamstix. It has the ability to create a new drum track for you based on an audio file. You have a lot of control as to how that's done similar to how Biab works. Otherwise there are programs like EZKeys, EZDrums, various guitar instrument plugins that have tons of different phrases in many styles for you to pick from. All of that is great but it's you putting this all together manually. Nobody has 6,000 styles that group all that stuff together for you with a few mouse clicks and then generate a complete song in a few seconds. I don't see anybody trying to do an end run around PGM patents to try to come out with thousands of pretty decent styles and then using those styles to sort through all the hundreds or thousands of different instrument tracks to put together a coherent song. It's the styles that controls everything. A style has 6 total tracks and somehow behind the scenes Biab knows which tracks to grab out of the thousands available to use. If it's midi I can see that's relatively easy because it's creating a new midi track from scratch but the RT's? Man, that's a whole other thing. Let's look at midi since it's easier. Everybody knows the sound quality is totally based on the synth. Biab uses GM for simplicity. Say a new company doesn't. A great sounding synth costs big bucks. What are they going to do come up with their own high end synth for sound in their new program? That alone is a huge project. Or do they let you buy what you want? Do that and they'll get all the same complaints we see here. Why do my tracks sound like crap? It's because you're using a crap sound source. How do they select the exact instrument for a given track? Well that depends on the synth too. GM is simple, same patch numbers regardless of the synth. I suppose a new program could be tailored to the different big name synths. One version for Sample Tank 4, another version for Kontakt another for Halion etc but look at all the different instrument packs you can buy for each. That would be a total complete mess. Thousands of patches available. Can you imagine the nooby questions their forum would get? And this is just for the midi side, what about audio like the RT's? Where's the source for a new company to provide audio parts? Unless they're going to hire all the same people PG has to record them where would they come from? That sounds like a huge challenge to me for somebody to try to beat Biab at it's own game. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Journeyman
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Bob, all your points are good ones. And I may be all wet in my prediction. But I hope I'm not. Why? Because the one thing that PGM needs more than anything else is competition. They have become stagnant, complacent, and insensitive to demands because they don't have to worry about anyone else trying to outdo them with a superior product, a lower price, or both. We all know -- or at least we should -- that competition improves the product for all concerned. BiaB is not immune to this. In fact, it shows clearly why competition is necessary.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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