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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Hi Andrew
Yes but how will you know how long the note should be.
It may be a tied note carried across to the next bar to underlie those notes and complete a chord.
And in any case could be a whole note half note or quarter note etc in which case it will be ms in time compared to tempo as well.
Very perplexing.
Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,340
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Although the solution here appears to involve MIDI commands as I had first guessed, Mike makes good points about cables, and it's a very simple thing to rule out by swapping. Also, a USB cable should not be over 14 feet in length, preferably well shorter.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jun 2006
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OP
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then another E4 NOTE ON, with no NOTE OFF in between. Right exactly, so the problem is conceptually very simple... just a missing note off. There aren't extra messages. ... Andrew, There are the same number of ON and OFF messages in the file (227). In the cases I checked, there is an OFF corresponding each ON. But you could look at the lines that I marked and make the interpretation that one of the OFF messages got delayed till after the next ON message was received. (As if an OFF got lost in a traffic jam on the MIDI bus!) Lots of possible interpretations. Ed
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jun 2006
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OP
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Re the cable discussion:
Yes, I am always suspicious of cables. I have used four cables. Two were USB cables, and I had the problem with both of them. Neither of the cables has any AWG markings that I can see. The other two were MIDI-to-USB, with an active device that translates MIDI to USB. Again, I don't see any AWG. All my cables have been relatively short.
The one I am using at the moment is the Yamaha device with the MIDI-USB converter. I bought this device specifically to see if it would fix the problem.
I also was concerned about my USB hub. It is not in the loop, but I disconnected it anyway to see if that made a difference. No change.
I don't have a computer nowadays with a MIDI-compatible connector. It would be interesting to try that.
At any rate, I will continue to look into the cable issue some more to see what I can come up with.
Ed
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: May 2002
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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This seems a bit different from what I saw with the previous file. With the previous file that I looked at, the second note was played a long time after the first note and there was no note off in between. In this case it seems like there are two notes received for a single note played.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jun 2006
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OP
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jun 2006
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OP
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Is there a difference between RealBand and BIAB in how the software reacts to Active Sensing?
If so, that might be a good clue, because the Yamaha pianos use Active Sensing, but the Casio keyboard does not.
Ed
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jun 2006
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It has been pointed out to me that my Clavinova uses a "triple sensor" keyboard technology called GH3. (Yeah, surprised the heck out of me, too!) There is a video on Youtube by Pianomanchuck explaining the technology in general terms.
It seems plausible to me that this technology might result in overlapping notes. It has been suggested that maybe Realband, Aria, Anvil, and Pianoteq have incorporated some algorithms to deal with it, but BIAB has not.
I have the feeling of being hot on the trail of something!
Any thoughts?
Andrew, do your software guys know anything about this?
Thanks,
Ed
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Dec 2015
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HI R reader
I think not, as I am using a CVP405 Clavinova that’s has GH3 and don’t seem to get this problem.
Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jun 2006
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I have discovered that this issue has been discussed quite a bit in the Reaper community. I'm pretty sure they are describing the same problem. They attribute it to how the software deals with signals from triple sensor keyboards. Here are some extracts: ************************** Consider this MIDI sequence: TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT 146543542 1 3 144 60 95 1 C 4 Note On 146543812 1 3 144 60 95 1 C 4 Note On 146544096 1 3 144 60 95 1 C 4 Note On 146545843 1 3 144 62 91 1 D 4 Note On 146545972 1 3 144 60 0 1 C 4 Note Off 146545972 1 3 144 62 0 1 D 4 Note Off 146546288 1 3 144 62 91 1 D 4 Note On 146546442 1 3 144 60 0 1 C 4 Note Off 146546442 1 3 144 62 0 1 D 4 Note Off 146546823 1 3 144 62 87 1 D 4 Note On 146547009 1 3 144 60 0 1 C 4 Note Off 146547009 1 3 144 62 0 1 D 4 Note Off ... The problem is, modern piano keyboards that use a three sensor technology will produce these sequences when a key is stroken and thereafter not fully released, but only half-released and stroken again. This behaviour mimics the repetition behaviour of a real Grand Piano. ... Yamaha Digitals and Hybrids like GT2, Avant Grand and all Clavinovas with GH3 keyboards can produce such sequences. Roland PHA III keyboards /should/ do it. Casio Tri sensor keyboards do it definitely, this are almost all recent piano models from Casio. ... When I play from my Kawai MP7 to a hardware synth via Reaper, I can have the same note overlapped ...If I use another controller I don't have the problem. ... MP7 has a triple-sensor keybed action, this is a pretty normal thing then, because you can start a new event before the first one has finished. ... Triple sensor actions can and will create stuff like that, because you can trigger another note before the first one receives a note off (because of the third sensor placed in between the main two ones that all the other regular actions have). *************** Extracted from discussions on this forum: https://forum.cockos.comEd
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,592
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,592 |
Interesting, so can you confirm that in your testing? If you release the keys completely all the time there should be no overlapping notes recorded? And anybody else with one of these keyboards could confirm this result.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
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Hi
Yes that seems a likely reason
When I done my test the other day if I played precisely make sure to let keys fully return before pressing again every thing was fine.
However the first test I done playing odd handfuls of notes without attention of complete key return I did get the stuck notes.
Like in the Ops original test these where often around B3 and E4 that I would often play with my small finger depending when I crossed over especially if playing left hand chords.
I put it down to my sloppy playing for the test , which is why I went on to make a more precise test paying attention to complete key release.
I can see this being a problem with some classical piano.
Holding a note over as in tied notes to underlie notes in the next bar should be ok providing you don’t let that tied note return to the half point.
One of my problems is I tend to be a bit on the legato side as I often use evolving voices for sweep pads that can take a couple of bars to complete the sweep.
If this is layered as say rh voice 2, over grand piano rh voice 1. they both get the same key strokes.
Very interesting topic.
Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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