I often read posts on the BIAB forums complaining about this or that. The software does not perform the way my thoughts perform. It gets to the stage where I think why would I bother with this stuff but, in reality it is not at all that way.
If something does not do what I want, then, what do I want. Two days ago I did a song the bass was not what I wanted (and using BIAB by itself never going to be.) I then used Amplesound Precision Bass to layer up the bass. (Created in Cakewalk and rendered)
Then I went back to BIAB and generated another 16 bars of drum fills (yep blue to blue, then green to green, then green to blue and blue to green and then some.)
I then pulled all the parts into a Reaper where I chopped, channeled and sculpted my way to a track that I thought worked. The next day got up listened again and in the clear light of day and thought I should chop out some parts to make dancing easier (for a concert I prefer what I had but for dancing the bar count was not as good as it should be.)
Now I have a song I’m proud of. Very simple olde style rock and roll. Did it happen out of the box? No. But, I learnt many years ago songs rarely work out on first attempts.
With the history of the song above it only took a short time to generate another song similar tempo and feel, different chords and key. But much of what I spent my time on could be reused.
Just a thought from a tired old wasted musician.
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
Just a thought from a tired old wasted musician. Tony
I beg to differ. Anybody thinking that far outside of the square is neither tired, nor too old.
This is a great appraisal, Tony.
BiaB gave you a foundation to work with, which you then enhanced to improve it to suit your liking, no?
Not a lot got wasted, in my opinion.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Tony I think that is one of the best post I have read in a while. I often think when reading through threads here I remember when I was little I would complain about my food , maybe that the meat was cut up in big chucks, and I wanted smaller ones. Well my mom would say “do you want me to chew it for you too?” In other words fix it yourself.
You see people complaining (I have been guilty as well) that the program does not do exactly what they want or they want to do everything inside one program, or what if it did this or that! Just 60 years ago the folks had to play everything live and 4 track recording was a huge deal. What’s next a computer program where we type in the basic instructions, I want a modern country ballad with a fiddle lead, and it does everything else. It writes the lyrics, chooses the chords and melody, records all the tracks, even vocals, then mixes and masters and distributes and collects the money. All while we sit back and say “see what I created!” Heck BiaB almost does that now.
The other day I was working on a song idea and kind of fussing over the multiriff lead section I had generated. I was thinking this thing is kind of chopped up and doesn’t flow smoothly. I had sent it into Studio one and set up the 7 riffs as layers and comped them till it was close, but it still didn’t seem to flow it seemed like separate little sections that didn’t fully connect together properly. So I opened the comped track in Melodyne heck I didn’t even have to open it and wait for it to load like before I just right clicked the track and chose apply Melodyne. Grabbed a few of the little audio blobs and drug them longer, closing the gaps in a few places and slid one blob up a step or three and boom it sounded like a coherent smooth lead track. I thought hey I can really shred, well my computer can.
If we want our project to really sound great and be what WE want it takes some time and hard work. We might have to actually play a track or two, or use other resources to get that perfect baseline, or drum track.
Anyway just some musing from another tired old dude!
Last edited by Rob Helms; 01/30/2001:24 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
For me, BIAB is a tool. If I find myself in a situation, that I would like it to do something and BIAB doesn't seem to do it, I immediately start thinking about "what I have" from BIAB and "what I want" that to become. I then start trying to work out how I might massage the first so that it becomes the second. There's usually a way!
Recently, I wrote a song and I wanted to have more control over the bass. With BIAB's rendered track, I could use either Melodyne in Reaper or I could use the Reaper plugins: Reatune, ReaVoice or ReaPitch.
Alternative, I could take the Bass's notation from BIAB as a MIDI file and then load the MIDI into Reaper and, with a suitable soundfont, or 'Jazz and Big Band 3' (or some other synth) the bass could be generated.
Finally, another option was to create loops of BIAB bass notes for each of the chords and riffs an then use those to give me what I wanted. Loops can be created in BIAB, Realband and Reaper.
I tried the various options on short segments of the bass line to see which one was best for me in my situation. It was fun to play around.
I don't know if this is sufficiently diverse enough to be described as...
...but it's fun to stretch the brain cells -- well what's left of them anyway
Just my 2 cents worth. Noel
P.S I read today that it seems that drinking tea can help stave off dementia. The statistics are amazing.
Tony I think that is one of the best post I have read in a while. I often think when reading through threads here I remember when I was little I would complain about my food , maybe that the meat was cut up in big chucks, and I wanted smaller ones. Well my mom would say “do you want me to chew it for you too?” In other words fix it yourself.
You see people complaining (I have been guilty as well) that the program does not do exactly what they want or they want to do everything inside one program, or what if it did this or that! Just 60 years ago the folks had to play everything live and 4 track recording was a huge deal.
I can very well remember plugging my “crystal mic” yep crystal (for those under 65 it was a little tube with chunks of carbon with a diaphragm at the end the same as the telephone transmitter). Into my amp. The lead singer also plugged into my amp he was my brother and bigger than me. And we thought we had technology beat. Over the screeches you almost heard the singing (ahh!!! We were made)
I’ll repeat, we are only restricted by our own imagination. (I even managed to get squeaks out of an 8086 if you can remember that far back.)
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
I even managed to get squeaks out of an 8086 if you can remember that far back.
Hey, don't feel bad! Although I never, ever used one, I read circuits that used the 4004. (WhatAreYaTalkinAbout64bit? )
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Yes, it's a little 'alien' looking, isn't it? We've come a long way in a very short time. Then and now.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
From our earliest explorations of RTs and RDs we’ve felt the simple fact that they can be regenerated (with different results) begs for DAW comping (cut/paste). Comping at the bar or even note level yields tracks that are much more supportive of one another and particularly the vocals. The possibilities are literally limitless...and it’s fun.
J&B
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
Band-in-a-Box is a tool kit. You can't expect tools to do the work for you, but if you learn how to use the tools, you can do quite a bit with the BiaB tool kit.
But like any tool, you have to know it's advantages, it's limititations, how to use it, and use it for what it is best designed for.
Band-in-a-Box is a tool kit. You can't expect tools to do the work for you, but if you learn how to use the tools, you can do quite a bit with the BiaB tool kit.
But like any tool, you have to know it's advantages, it's limititations, how to use it, and use it for what it is best designed for.
Insights and incites by Notes
Yeah what he said!
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
Band-in-a-Box is a tool kit. You can't expect tools to do the work for you, but if you learn how to use the tools, you can do quite a bit with the BiaB tool kit.
But like any tool, you have to know it's advantages, it's limititations, how to use it, and use it for what it is best designed for.
Insights and incites by Notes
Yeah what he said!
Ditto!
My boss calls me "the computer". Nothing to do with intelligence. I go to sleep if left unattended for 15 minutes.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
There are limits to what BIAB can do. That being said those limitations typically have more to do with the creativity of the user than the tool itself.
If someone ONLY relies on the sounds in a specific style; and only uses whatever the first generation of that style would be...that's not the programs fault. It's like placing your finger on the C key on a piano, repeatedly only striking that note and complaining the piano doesn't do enough.
Then you have the person who not only plays the additional notes on the keyboard; but goes into the piano and starts plucking the strings, tapping on various part of the body, and/or adds distortion to get all sorts of sounds you wouldn't traditionally think of.
The same instrument different people. Such is BIAB.
The showcase has many examples of what is possible with creativity. It's impressive, IMO. If you aren't getting it to do what you want, don't blame. Learn. That's why I'm here. lol
Thanks for the topic Teunis!
(using text to speech so there may be errors.)
Last edited by HearToLearn; 01/30/2006:05 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
Noel96, some people do not realise that in Reaper to alter the pitch of a note is extremely easy. Select the note and (off memory) shift 9 or shift 0 for a semitone you can find it in the Actions List. Shift 7 and 8 for a cent. This assumes that the Reaper Shortcut Key settings have not been altered in the Action List but just search for pitch in the action list. I find this quicker than going back to BIAB in case of a key change to the whole song. Or indeed quicker and simpler than going into Melodyne for a few notes. After all it is possible to do this on the fly.
It is also very simple to move notes. The stretching I don’t like that much as it is very easy to get unwanted artefacts.
I write this because some folks are unaware that these tasks are very simple in Reaper.
Of course if you are changing one note within a chord the Melodyne it is.
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 01/30/2011:53 AM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
Great points all. BIAB is intelligent, but it doesn't read minds. It delivers fantastic parts and ideas, but it remains to the "bandleader" (you and me) to choose how to use them, and to learn how that might be done.
The only thing I pretty much do every time religiously is make a copy of the song-file (as easy in Windows as copy/paste in the same folder) and either 1. Add extensions and/or slash chords. 2. Add new instruments/real tracks, midi, drums. 3. Create new sections, such as intros, endings, true change-up bridges, and/or short rhythmical passages.
Then loading all to DAW in such a way that working with all those tracks is not too cumbersome, putting on the "producer" hat, and building the song. Cut, paste, move, pitch-shift, whatever to get where you want to go.
Fortunately for me, I am just the band-leader, not the BAND. BIAB delivers not just tracks, but IDEAS. Listen to the band.
I don't really enjoy "mixing", but I do very much enjoy "producing". In truth, I'm already "producing" even while I'm in BIAB...thinking about making that call to the Sax player in RT whatever, or how to best utilize what the Band is giving me.
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