While we understand that the plugin is not supposed to have all the functionality of the main program, it needs to be able to render tracks to work well with live recorded and user made tracks in the DAW. It also needs to be able to open and play files made in BiaB and follow the basic instructions in those song files.
The following are known and confirmed issues not working with the current plugin:
Center Panned, Dry, (no EQ or FX). These are important for rendering to a DAW, as they allow the user to use tools in the DAW for processing rather than having them pre processed. A must have!
The 300 new MIDI RCs for Real Drums (Studio one, Cakewalk, and Ableton live not working) they worked last year when there were only 20 but are broken now. Also, a must have to allow much wanted multi-track drums.
Song Fold/Unfold bug. If a song is generated while the chord sheet is folded. It will generate all choruses. If you drag tracks to the DAW, play the song in the DAW then make any changes to the song, it will only generate the 1st chorus. Note: in the info bar (black area with blue lettering) if the chorus count looks like 1/2 or 1/3 etc generation of all choruses fail. If you hit the red stop button on the plugin or manually reset the count it will work.
Embedded Tempo, many DAWs can stretch the audio to follow a live tempo but the audio file must have embedded tempo first. MIDI tracks always have the tempo embedded. If you want to have the plugin work with a live recording or want to add tempo changes in your DAW, the file needs embedded tempo.
Style changes in the Bar settings. This is a cool feature to add texture to the song. It only works when a file is brought from BiaB, not one created in the plugin.
The new in 2020 Harmony's or thickening this doesn’t work properly
Medley Changes are not working properly in the plugin.
Song Settings 2-4 Bar Ending only works with 4 bars ending.
RDs do not re-generate when generated on the Style page.
Direct Input versions of RTs are very important allowing a user to use amp sims to create the sound desired but are not working.
1/8 push, 1/16 push are still not working
This plugin can be a real power tool for DAW users. PGM needs to allot the resources to complete it at least this far for now not letting a second development cycle slip by with these vital issues unresolved. Please if you also feel that these issues need attention please add your voice. If PGM could spend some time and solve these issue we would have a solid working plugin.
Sure there are other requests, like GUI and solo/mute/etc, however these do currently work as they are. Maybe there are better or more intuitive ways but we all probably agree basic function is vital to attract new users and enhance our experience. Since we know we are up against the Mac development cycle let’s ask for function first. If you see a rendering feature that was missing or still doesn’t work for Windows add it to the list.
Regards Rob.
Last edited by Rob Helms; 02/15/2007:19 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
Only the last two DT direct and pushes are improvements.
The rest are bugs. PGM has already released the feature and it does not work Properly
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
In the past 2.5 months, today back to Dec 1, 2019 when the V2 of the VST was launched, there have been 34 individual threads posted in this forum subsection. This resulted in 165 separate comments across all threads and 6, 628 views. I can't tell you exactly what percentage of all those metrics is made up of you, me, and pipeline with a recent surge by Masi and Brian but I would guess it would be substantial. My point?
We are not a significant enough demographic to change the course. The current version of the VST is working as intended and functioning enough for us to get by even with the limitations. New features will be added in V3 of the VST with pay-for-release in Dec 2020 and those will fix bugs and introduce new ones. At that time, God willing, we will all still be here. And if the year is good to us, as I hope it will be, we will be plucking down our CC for the next version.
That said, your points are well understood and well appreciated - you and pipeline are fighting the good fight. I do wish it would be different. I wish PGM was more capable and more responsive to the input and suggestions of their more vocal members in the forum. I wish they would have a more frequent revision cycle which addressed bug reports and feature requests. For their sake as well as ours, I wish the BIAB code was more up to day to permit the kind of flexibility needed to accomplish these wishes. I wish there were no Mac OS so programming resources didn't need to spend time on a niche market.
But to be honest I really wish above all else, that I had more musical talent so I did not need this program so much to make my music.
Maybe I should take some of this stuff over the the wishing forum, the black hole that it is.
<< all comments made with a sly smile and tongue in cheek >>
These are all reasonable fix requests and would go a long way toward making the plugin top notch. I've started working with the plugin more lately, but hesitate to fully embrace it for some of these needed fixed. Adar has done wonders with the plugin, but these fixes would really put it over the top.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 8TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 11TB SATA
All points have been really well put, with fairness for all parties involved.
I too wish that more attention was directed towards resolving well known issues.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
I appreciate all who have added to this post. I hope many more will stop by and add their voice to this cause. I also want to say that I do not intend to bash Peter, PGM or anyone involved. This request is with the utmost respect for the company, and its product line. However, this product started two cycles ago, and many issues were never solved the first year. Some of this is understandable. All but two of the fix request here, are based in features offered this year, which all of us paid to upgrade for. It is only right that these bugs are fixed in this cycle. It is really not asking to much.
This what I am asking for, only what is fair. I would like to add that I ask this not in anger, frustration, or contentiousness . But respectfully and kindly. I have been a loyal user, and fan of the company. I will continue to be. Please handle theses issue and start next year fresh.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
In all fairness: I asked PG probably already way back and just after in Atari days, when BIAB was still MIDI only, if they could incorporate a slave MidiClock, MTC or SMPTE mode for BIAB. Never understood why they did not do just that.
I still think this VST makes the whole slaving thing far too complicated. Quite a thing to get used to BIAB and it's quirky interface and all those 'hidden' submenu-ed and sometimes quite useful functions. But you learn to live with that.
I've been trying to get things done with this VST, but still couldn't find an easy going & practical way of working with it. A simple tempo or bar-count or key change, and off you go rendering the lot a gain, and so much slower compared to BIAB it seems. Call it the VST blues? This VST still feels like it's unfinished business. Sorry PG.
Thanks, Rob, for bringing these core rendering issues to light.
BiaB RTs, RDs, and RCs are the best-kept secret from the DAW world. “Professional Studio Musician playing your song's tracks!”
The DAW market is expected to reach $16 Billion by 2026. Hopefully, PGM sees the plugin as a potential “Game Changer” gateway product to this massive DAW market.
The plugin as a gateway offers the crème de la crème of BiaB“Rendered Pros” with a very low learning curve compared to a 675+ page manual.
However, this new DAW generation expects it to be intuitive, and simply work as advertised.
Because the plugin is at its core a "Front end to BiaB’s rendering engine", why would anyone bother to use it if it cannot match the core rendering capabilities of BiaB?
I am sure PGM is aware of these dozen rendering issues, but it is frustrating to both wait 15 months for them to be addressed and hold off recommending it to the world.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
The current version of the VST is working as intended and functioning enough for us to get by even with the limitations.
With all due respect I disagree. There are enough bugs present, so I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who is not a very loyal customer who is willing to accept glitches and hiccups.
There will never be any software without any bugs. There are just too many for the limited features set of the plugin.
Sure there are other requests, like GUI and solo/mute/etc, however, these do currently work as they are. Maybe there are better or more intuitive ways but we all probably agree basic functionality is vital to attract new users and enhance our experience.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Thanks Jeff, that is helpful. I also found that highlighting one holding shift allows you to choose several tracks in a row as you showed in the video. Holding control and clicking tracks allows you to choose several and skip tracks.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
I tried plugin on a few occasions... However, I will still use BIAB 99% of the time.
If a plugin is a "way" to rewrite BIAB, perhaps it is a good start. However with so many things that are missing that are in BIAB, I hardly find a use for it.
Ideally, I would want a single platform. For example like Halion Sonic (or Kontakt) You can use it as a standalone or as VST with almost identical interface and functions. With PG plugin it is another game that I have to learn. I am keeping an eye on it, but for now I still feel it is in very early stage. Maybe it is a good idea to slow down new features flow and focus on strengthening software, giving more time to consider suggestions and for beta users to test it thoroughly?
One more paragraph
I was very frustrated when I tried BIAB for the first time. One forum member suggested that I should approach it with "open mind". I am glad I did. Now, I want to give same advise to PG & staff. Talk to somebody who is ace in music software programming with "open mind". See what they have to say... especially what they would prioritize/focus on if it was their fish to fry. (I am talking about design+functions, not RT/RD/Midi content here)
Good thoughts RS, BiaB is a powerful program that most folks never scratch the surface of what it can do. The plugin however is and never was a rewrite of BiaB. It is a way to create BiaB type tracks inside a DAW. Allowing the DAW user to add instruments to an existing song or start a song track bed from scratch. As it sits now it can do that, but there are a few basic features that are not working properly. Once these are repaired it should be a nice tool in the box.
We should never expect it to replace BiaB, which is far too deep with features to try to put in a VST plugin. The best way to view the plugin is to imagine a simplified BiaB lite.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
When a DAW users comes to the plugin for the first time the interface should be a no brainer to use. Look how much conversation and confusion there has been with playing syncing soloing muting. I should not have to nag every day since it's release. It was said at the beginning to give it it's own unique name, like Session Tracks Pro etc... like you have PowerTracks, RealBand, Band in a Box. No one should have to come on the forum and ask how do I sync a track, how do I solo a track, how do I mute a track. It was the same thinking when RealBand was made, there was one blue solo button that you enabled then go and select tracks with Ctrl+ left click, then if you clicked on the chord sheet to play they would all become unselected. It is still the same thinking applied to the Plugin.
Like with ChordPotion how many users are asking how do I mute/solo tracks, where is the Big logo ?
Or with Ezdrummer or Superior Drummer, how do I get it to follow the Host, how do I solo/mute tracks, why is the Logo so big ?
Pipes, your point is valid. I agree that there needs to be some changes to the GUI regarding solo etc. maybe this can happen. Hopefully in the new version 3.0, maybe even before. What I am trying to focus on is feature advertised during the release cycle that do not work, or are core to proper function. Things like Real Charts for RDs, Tempo embedded, ability to render dry, flat centered track that the user can pan, FX, match up to either live or midi tracks. Harmonies and thickening were advertised as new features. All the above and a few more were why many bought the upgrade. I know that the PGM team want to fix all this, but there is limited time in each cycle. So I am asking for actual bugs and broken features be repaired before the cycle is over. Kind of a “give us what you promised” conversation.
Nothing would make me more happy if it included some form of mute/solo revision, I know that you have worked hard to point this out. I’m sure you would agree we need basic broken feature function fixed first before upgrades. The reason Jpettit posted the solo video was not to abandon the idea of refinement but to offer some clarity for users on how to use the current solo feature. So that the focus could remain on repair before update.
Thanks again for all you do here, you are a valued opinion’round these here parts!
Regards Rob
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
There is a DAW user in Bolivia that just got his Biab hard drive, he has no internet and can't work out the Plugin. If we had no internet we would be in the same boat still trying to decipher it to find the hidden features, I never had to get on the net to work out Ezdrummer.
Those Dry, Flat, Center, Normalize, ACID are all done in BBW4 that has to be done by Peter's side that's probably working on the Mac at the moment and will be for a while. The graphics are there for Dry Flat...ACID and just waiting for Peter's side but the solo mute don't need Peter's side to be fixed. I would say a lot of the other issues are BBW4 related.
Since giving up on RealBand for creating tracks for artists live session or studio sessions I have not got back into it due to the fact there is no EZ creative work flow with the Plugin. Don't look at things from the perspective of using only one Biab Plugin, look at using more, then think about the work flow if it would be EZZZZZZZ.
But again at the end of the day there are so many hours and so many programming staff.
This article makes a point. For a decade you could drag and drop from the main application.
It also reiterates the point of this thread. Why would people use it if it cannot at least match the existing BiaB capabilities? Thus the need for parity and the reason this forum only gets .5% of the views.
Then one could ask why would they use it even if it had the same functionality?
In my humble opinion, the new or casual DAW-BiaB user does not have to sift through the 675-page manual.
Within a few minutes, the new DAW-BiaB user is getting "Pro Musicians" playing their song! They don't have to become a BiaB expert.
This is why I think it has great potential as a gateway product.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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