That's always the question, isn't it? Do the forums represent a valid cross section of the actual user base or not? Is the actual user base roughly over 60 years old or is it younger? Is the base truly mainly interested in 50 year old classic styles from the 50's to the 70's? Is the base generally not very computer savvy? It's just my opinion of course but I strongly suspect the answer is yes.
Therefore, my generalized use of the term "nobody cares" stands. Of course some care but is it enough to matter?
And Masi, you're comments about already being a DAW user so you never even gave Real Band a look is part of the problem. Not blaming you because that's a logical point of view on your part. You already have a DAW and don't need another one. What you're missing is Real Band is not a standard DAW, it does much more than any DAW can do. If you were proficient with it I think you would have a different view of the VST concept.
From what I've seen so far, RB beats the VST so badly it's not even in the conversation. Anything you want the VST to do in a DAW RB already does so to me RB should be the thing getting developed further but it never has.
How many comments are there on these forums saying PG should finish developing and fixing things in Biab or RB before moving on to something new? RB has all the standard DAW functions but I agree some do not work as elegantly as the bigger name DAWs so yes it could use more polishing but so can pretty much any other piece of music production software.
Anyway, I'll leave it up to you guys to boost the VST concept and good luck with it.
RB has all the standard DAW functions but I agree some do not work as elegantly as the bigger name DAWs so yes it could use more polishing but so can pretty much any other piece of music production software.
RB is so far from the modern DAWs available! You try to make it sound like it just needs a little polish when it is slow and clunky. It has one feature and that is the ability to use RealTracks. Without that single feature I cannot imagine anyone choosing it over any other DAW out there.
RB can be used successfully I did over 100 projects in it and it work pretty well. But it is not as smooth and quick as one of the top DAWs and lacks polish. With out RTs it is just powertracks.
Bob, as far as no one cares regarding the plugin, that might be at least partially true. Yet I think that initially people did care, but it was not working properly, and interest waned quickly. Yes a lot of the demographic here is Surley old curmudgeons like you and me. But that could change if the plugin were working properly. There are some people here lurking to see if that changes. I can think of three people off the top of my head that are very influential on other DAW sites and would be very likely to suggest even promote the plugin to many potentially new users.
I think Bob, you make a good, but sad and painful observation when you say no one cares. Therein lies the problem. In my mind PGM is locked into a very old and debilitating cycle of release hell. Each year they add new features and new RTs to a program created in the early 90 patching over old legacy code. Stuck in a never ending cycle of 6 months of windows release and fix, and 6 months of Mac release and fix. No real time or resources to truly develop a modern version with modern code. Hence the plugin never getting the time it deserves to become a gateway to DAW users tool.
RB is no better, trapped in the old code of Powertracks from the old days. Yes a decent product but the GUI and feature set reminiscent of cakewalk music creator from 15 years ago.
We all pour our money into this product each year expecting the offered features to work properly, and many times they don’t. We shrug our shoulders and say “just the way it is”. This time I and several others are asking that this cycle be broken and the promised features be fixed.
This is only expecting what we paid for, and no more. Maybe there is little interest in the plugin at this time, but it was an advertised feature of the core program, and its unfinished.
Rather than argue and debate whether there is interest in a feature why not expect, no demand that products not be offered for sale unless they are sale worthy, that being actually working as advertised.
I’m not being mean or hard, I love PGM products. I have been a user for years. I expect for my loyalty, loyalty in return.
Last edited by Rob Helms; 03/08/2004:14 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
................Yet I think that initially people did care, but it was not working properly, and interest waned quickly. ..................
Exactly
Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
.............. Therein lies the problem. In my mind PGM is locked into a very old and debilitating cycle of release hell. Each year they add new features and new RTs to a program created in the early 90 patching over old legacy code. Stuck in a never ending cycle of 6 months of windows release and fix, and 6 months of Mac release and fix. No real time or resources to truly develop a modern version with modern code. Hence the plugin never getting the time it deserves to become a gateway to DAW users tool.
I completely agree.
Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
RB is no better, trapped in the old code of Powertracks from the old days. Yes a decent product bu the GUI and feature set reminiscent of cakewalk music creator from 15 years ago.
Again I agree.
Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
We all pour our money into this product each year expecting the offered features to work properly, and many times they don’t. We shrug our shoulders and say “just the way it is”. This time I and several others are asking that this cycle be broken and the promised features be fixed.
This is only expecting what we paid for, and no more. Maybe there is little interest in the plugin at this time, but it was an advertised feature of the core program, and its unfinished.
Rather than argue and debate whether there is interest in a feature why not expect, no demand that products not be offered for sale unless they sale worthy that being actually working as advertised.
I’m not being mean or hard, I love PGM products. I have been a user for years. I expect for my loyalty, loyalty in return.
Very well stated.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school. Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
One more thought, PGM can’t rely on the older generation forever we are slowly going away. Mr/Dr. Gannon is from our generation, and someday he too will pass this company on to family and friends. I want to see his legacy continue to shine in the light of new users and products. Imagine the “50” new features in BiaB 2030 or beyond.
This product as is will not hold up to the expectations of the younger generations. It’s time to do two very important things.
1. Get this plugin to where it will bring in Dollars (Canadian) from the vast field of young DAW users. Revenue for development.
2. Begin to rewrite BiaB in a totally new coding that allows simultaneous release of Mac and Win versions. Like many of the DAWs out there, I.e. reaper, studio one etc.
This may take some capital investment but will allow this product to survive into the next generation of DAW users.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
For the MIDI side I view the VSTi as an input device much like a MIDI controller. That is using it to drive data into your DAW. Thus you assign a VSTi in your DAW and each BiaB VSTi MIDI track would power each different DAW track. Again that is much like making zones on your keyboard controller. After you achieve the perfect BiaB VSTi track you would or could move it to your DAW. What you hear in the BiaB VSTi is exactly how it will sound in your DAW.
My reasoning for this is that GM is not used much outside of the PGMusic world. MIDI users usually would have much better sounding samples than what comes with GM so having to listen to a VSTi that only uses GM might be a major step backwards for them.
For the RT side the above isn't necessary. Just generate your RTs then move them to your DAW.
For styles with both RTs and MIDI a combination of the above ideas would come into play.
This is just my view and others may or may not agree.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school. Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Very interesting idea! So If you drag or open a midi track inside the plugin VSTi it could be assigned to a DAW track with a synth VSTi and play insync with the plugin RTs and other DAW tracks right?
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
How many users have used more than one Biabvst in their DAW ??
That's why in the new GUI I showed midi channel choice so if you are using one instance you can set the channel of that midi track, so it will rechannel the midi tracks in the local folder to the selected channel so as it's sending to the DAW where you can route that channel to any track. Guide: Using Multiple Biab Plugins You can put a Biabvst on each track generating a midi track in each plugin with different virtual instrument after the Biabvst. In Reaper I just set up the Biabvst on one track and load the chords, now just duplicate the track as many time as you like, set a virtual instrument on each track, generate up a midi track in each Biabvst, double click on each midi icon to set them to sync play (in the new GUI you don't need to do this as it will play sync by default unless you click the mute button (yes a Mute button with an M that Mario will see no problem without having to distinguish colors) to mute tracks or hit the Host button to stop sync playback). If track 4 don't sound right generate it up again or have a multiriff midi and use the S solo button in the new GUI to solo the riff you like. Will that give you enough midi tracks now ??
The whole idea of the Biabvst is for this
Quote:
bowled over by 2020
Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
now done several songs. i couldnt do any better if i used a big studio ;like i used to. wowser !!!!!!!
so to give those in the studio "Session Tracks Pro" vst not the old name "Band in a Box" that is associated with auto accompaniment from the 90's and a nightmare to workout and learn. You can't tell a Studio using Mac to use RealBand !
Very interesting idea! So If you drag or open a midi track inside the plugin VSTi it could be assigned to a DAW track with a synth VSTi and play insync with the plugin RTs and other DAW tracks right?
YES
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school. Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
It is my firm hope that as soon as Mac beta is completed, and Mac release begins that Peter and team will spend the time to fix the 11 promised features that don’t work, and bring this plugin product to where is needs to be, before any new ideas are implemented for 2021.
How cool that would be. If they do this let’s make a commitment in return to let everyone we know that dabbles in this area, that this is a great addition to their DAW creation process. Some might be on the fence due to the conversation around these part regarding the problems.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
Ideally, I would want a single platform. For example like Halion Sonic (or Kontakt) You can use it as a standalone or as VST with almost identical interface and functions. With PG plugin it is another game that I have to learn. here)
A better example would be Native Instruments MASCHINE - available standalone or as a plugin. Or REASON by propellerheads.
Last edited by nonchai; 03/09/2007:26 AM.
MacOS Sequoia, M4 Pro Mac Mini , 64GB RAM 512GB SSD , BIAB, Cubase, Ableton, Logic Pro, SCALER 3, GigLad, AnyTune, Synthesizer V Pro,Vienna Ensemble Pro, Audiofuse, Fractal FM3, KOMPLETE 15, StreamDeck, iReal Pro White beard, beer belly, bald patch
I'm so relieved and encouraged that there are others here who share - not only my enthusiasm with BIAB - *and* its idea - but also the huge potential the plugin *could* offer if implemented properly.
So I can only add a gazillion of +1's to this thread. My amens.
I'm a Mac plugin user but this thread clearly has more traction than the Mac equivalent.
I am of course the person who dared to raise the heresy of PG considering outside sources of funding - buyouts even - in order to break the same old cycle that has been so well - even graphically ( literally ) illustrated here.
I recall Pete Gannon even piped in at one stage to say or imply that there was no issue with any lack of funds to support any additional developer resource for plugins etc.
Seems to me that now many many months down the road - and how things have panned out that this isnt the case. Far as I can tell its a single developer - no doubt overworked - who codes both the windows and Mac plugin.
Now of course it isnt necessarily the case that simply throwing more developers. (and cash ) on a software problem resolves things - sometimes it makes things worse. But something just isnt right.
I was clearly in a minority of one to dare to suggest "teaming up" with the Y-word.... And in the end those posts actually got deleted on the FR forum.
I think I'm vindicated now and its still imo a good idea.
But hey - if. things work out with the plugin in the next year all the better.
I note that theres nothing in the 2020 plugin notes that mentions anything about speeding up generation though. Thats a biggie for me. Not seen much talk bout it here. Are people fine with the huge rendering times?
Last edited by nonchai; 03/10/2002:47 PM.
MacOS Sequoia, M4 Pro Mac Mini , 64GB RAM 512GB SSD , BIAB, Cubase, Ableton, Logic Pro, SCALER 3, GigLad, AnyTune, Synthesizer V Pro,Vienna Ensemble Pro, Audiofuse, Fractal FM3, KOMPLETE 15, StreamDeck, iReal Pro White beard, beer belly, bald patch
As for speeding up generation, considering that it generates useable tracks usually 4 or 5, in somewhere around a minute. I don’t feel that is too much of a wait time to crush creativity. I mean if you were having to program a drum track in EZDrummer, and then go program one in EZKeys, then piece together a bass track with another program, or loops, then add a guitar track from some guitar VSTi that might take hours not minutes. So 1 or 2 minutes is just not a big problem. I think sometimes we get sort of crazy with our expectations. If the plugin worked with all the feature list advertised would it be horrible if it even took 5 minutes to generate? Most likely not. So a couple minutes is really good.
I tried several files and most of my render times were around 90 seconds the longest was just under 120 seconds. Now these songs were 2 or 3 choruses and not real complicated, so if the song was super long it might take 3 to 5 minutes. Still not bad to get get a decent 4 or 5 part track base. We do have to take into consideration the speed and power of our personal computers. Some of the delay maybe on our end. I know my system is getting older and is not top of the line.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
Originally it took ages to generate but then it was changed to use the same render method as Biab so it is the same render speed now (see pic below same song in Biab and the Plugin).
Moving all the code to the Plugin will take another 10 years. If there was also a simple version of the Plugin that just had the code in it to generate up single tracks one at a time without the need for bbw4 and all the complexities of Band in a Box would give DAW only non Biab users a very simple no brainer Plugin like EZKeys.
The Plugin should of been targeted more to DAW only users that know nothing about "Band in a Box", it should of had it's own name like "Quick Tracks Pro" "Studio Tracks Pro" "No Brainer Tracks Pro" etc.. but because of the old name was still used "Band in a Box Plugin" long time users of Band in a Box thought they were getting Band in a Box in a Plugin so everything has been driven in the plugin over the last year to be that for them, so there was not much done with the GUI so users are still trying to work it out, where as EZKeys, EZDrummer are still in version 1 because they worked the first time from being well thought out and designed.
That's why I suggested a simple vst/au that will send VstTimeInfo play/stop/loop/pos etc from the DAW to the main Biab app so it plays back in sync to the DAW. This is what FL Studio and RapidComposer use to sync them to the DAW (see pic below).
As for speeding up generation, considering that it generates useable tracks usually 4 or 5, in somewhere around a minute. I don’t feel that is too much of a wait time to crush creativity. ............
I'm afraid I simply disagree. I find the current generation waits in BIAB standalone acceptable but absolutely not the much greater time in the plugin. As we know this is because in standalone generation gets done via RAM whereas in the plugin there is an extra step after this - namely writing the result to disk.
For me the creativity element is killed this way. And im on a relatively fast I7 Mac.
The waits incurred might be acceptable if one has firmed up the arrangement and isn't likely to be changing chords much - but if one is in early stages and trying out different progression or arrangement ideas this just hampers workflow to a point that frankly make me unwilling to use the plugin for actual production or composition in a DAW. But our disagreements on this point might as I suggest be more down to our differing approaches to composing or production etc..
MacOS Sequoia, M4 Pro Mac Mini , 64GB RAM 512GB SSD , BIAB, Cubase, Ableton, Logic Pro, SCALER 3, GigLad, AnyTune, Synthesizer V Pro,Vienna Ensemble Pro, Audiofuse, Fractal FM3, KOMPLETE 15, StreamDeck, iReal Pro White beard, beer belly, bald patch
Originally it took ages to generate but then it was changed to use the same render method as Biab so it is the same render speed now (see pic below same song in Biab and the Plugin).
hmmm - I'll be testing out this myself ( on Mac beta ) as I'll remain sceptical on your claim. But if true fantastic.
MacOS Sequoia, M4 Pro Mac Mini , 64GB RAM 512GB SSD , BIAB, Cubase, Ableton, Logic Pro, SCALER 3, GigLad, AnyTune, Synthesizer V Pro,Vienna Ensemble Pro, Audiofuse, Fractal FM3, KOMPLETE 15, StreamDeck, iReal Pro White beard, beer belly, bald patch
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
Playable RealTracks Set 5
RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean