I started creating a song in BIAB using _CBOOGS2.sty @ 129 bpm and got to the point where I could lay down the vocals. (Trying to match Elvis is NOT easy !!!). Up until today I was quite excited with the progress I had made and put it into Cakewalk by BandLab. I thought to then tinker as a means to becoming more familiar with all the software that I have. I wanted to put a slightly more interesting drum track to the song than was provided by the Style that I had used. I turned to EZDrummer and created a new drum track that rocked a bit more with the song. I muted the BIAB drum track and sat back to enjoy.
I find that I'm not on Cloud 9. As the playback progressed, I found that all my hard work on the vocals and editing and rough mixing in Cakewalk was not resulting in me reaching for a glass of Scotch for the right reasons. The timing/tempo between the BIAB tracks and the EZDrummer track started to drift by the time the playback got to Bar 35-36 (very slightly and NOT from the start) and then by bar 65-66 seemed to 'jump' to a greater degree of difference. The BIAB tracks and my vocal track (which I had recorded against the full BIAB song, had started to fall behind. As I said, it was not at an even rate through the song.
I soloed the BIAB drum track with the EZD drum track so not to be confused. The tempo changes were clearly there. I then needed to discover if it was the BIAB or EZD drum track that was at fault, so I soloed each one in turn with Cakewalk's metronome switched on. It is BIAB's drum track that falls behind at 2x different points in the song. By the end of the song there is a 2x BEAT difference or thereabouts.
My dilemma now, is how to move forward. Do I try to mess around with squeezing the EZD drum track to fit with all the other tracks, or do I try stretching the BIAB tracks to fit with the EZD drum track. Either way, it seems that I have to re-do the vocals (which my neighbours aren't going to appreciate !!).
Any constructive thoughts on how I should go about this would be appreciated - but MORE IMPORTANTLY - has anyone else experienced the same issue ?? Has this got something to do with Style built in tempos being squeezed or stretched to fit the tempo of the BIAB song you are creating ??
It would be a shame if this is a weakness of BIAB because I am anticipating using EZD drum tracks in favour of BIAB Style generated drum tracks for most of my songs, simply for the fact that you can have each piece of drum kit in EZD placed on its separate DAW track for individual treatment and mixing purposes.
I don’t have an answer but I have experienced something like this. I took a BIAB track to the pro recording studio I use. My track was tempo quarter note = 140 bpm. The engineer determined it was actually 139.6 something. We stretched it to a true 140 as measured by his hardware word clock.
What is different in your case is you have said there are, for lack of a better word, glitches at certain places. I did not experience this; my tempo seemed stable, just not precisely right.
I don’t know if software has a mechanism to sync to a word clock, nor which software does so if it even is possible. And my home setup, while quite good, does not have hardware that would sync to a word clock. It’s an area I would like to know more about.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I wonder if it's related to ACID information possibly being stored in the BIAB files.
By default, Cakewalk will read ACID information and stretch or shrink audio with such information embedded. This sometimes causes misalignment of tracks.
Is your Cakewalk tempo set to exactly the same as BIAB? BIAB only has whole-number tempos where Cakewalk has decimal values (as Matt has mentioned above). Also, are you using a MIDI for the net in Cakewalk as well? I suspect that the embedded tempos in this (if any) can override Cakewalk's setting.
As a starting place, try disabling the 'read ACID information' setting in Cakewalk. I don't know what it's called but it will be there somewhere.
To Matt - in a weird way, it's good to know that it's not only me with this experience. But of course, it's NOT good. And you read me correctly. The drift isn't an equal drift from start to end. It's perfect snyc to about Bar 35 when it becomes noticeable and then at around Bar 65 it jumps to being unacceptably noticeable. I'm fairly certain that it is not my imagination running away with me (queue for a song).
To Noel96 - ACID information is totally new to me. Thanks for mentioning it. I will research it and then check within Cakewalk. All I know is that I set BIAB to 129bpm whole units and when in Cakewalk, I also typed in a round 129bpm. Your 2nd question Noel shows up my ignorance : "are you using a MIDI for the net in Cakewalk as well?". Would you mind explaining this a bit more to me.
Whilst you have both been brave to jump in on this and give me helpful pointers, I hope others will simply advise if they have had the same experience.
Your 2nd question Noel shows up my ignorance : "are you using a MIDI for the net in Cakewalk as well?". Would you mind explaining this a bit more to me.
Woops... and I thought I proof-read my post. Sorry.
It's not your ignorance that is shown up but my slipshod typing. So your integrity remains intact.
What I was trying to ask was, did you download a MIDI file from the net and use that in either Cakewalk or BIAB?
I have EZ Drummer and use it often. I've never had a problem with it matching tracks created in BIAB.
I think Noel is referring to MIDI files not created by BIAB (such as downloaded from the Internet) that can contain tempo changes (and who knows what else). In other cases posted here, we have advised looking for control changes within the file. But if you are simply generating your own BIAB file, that doesn’t apply here.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Thanks again - both of you. Your willingness to help is amazing. It is reassuring Noel that you use EZD with BIAB songs without this issue.
No, I haven't used a downloaded Midi file in this song. It is only BIAB and then EZD added.
I have read up on ACID and am now looking to find where in Cakewalk there might be a means to disable it.
I am also looking on BandLab's help pages to check out what my settings should be for synchronisation. It suggests Trigger & Freewheel if my interface has a Word Clock input. I have a Steinberg UR44 and I don't think it has. So I am set up to use Full Chase Lock.
Then a setting : When SMPTE/MTC Timecode Is Detected (always switch clock source / do not switch clock source but start if in SMPTE/MTC mode / never switch). Now my brain is hurting, but I shall try the different options and come back to what it was set on if changing these do not make a difference to my problem. It was set on Ask first, then switch clock source and start.
Then another setting choice : When clock source is set to SMPTE/MTC or MIDI Sync, pressing Play will : Switch current clock source and play back : OR : Maintain current clock source and wait for time code and I have to set either preference.
I guess I should be on Bandlab's forums to get advice on this.
If I stumble upon something I shall definitely come back with my findings.
I was working on just that before I read your input. I thought it would be a simple matter of copy and paste but I'm being asked for a full URL when I try to enter the JPGs in this window. They are sitting on my Windows Desktop. Sorry to ask, but what is the procedure here ?
I was working on just that before I read your input. I thought it would be a simple matter of copy and paste but I'm being asked for a full URL when I try to enter the JPGs in this window. They are sitting on my Windows Desktop. Sorry to ask, but what is the procedure here ?
Regards Chris
You need an image hosting service like Imgur. They have a free starter that I used for years. Haven't run out of free storage yet.
I've just checked this Forums FAQs and found what to do. The only problem I have now is that I get an error message saying that my image exceeds 10Mb when it's only 256Kbs. I shall doggedly keep trying to upload my images in 4x separate replies.
Go to www.DropBox.com and create a free account, I think you get 2gig free. Upload the wav file, Share, copy link if the link has a 0 on the end it will take you to the site to download it, if you change it to a 1 on the end it will direct download.
t-break For images: You do need to have a certain number of posts here before the File Manager allows you to post an image on PGMusic servers. If that is what you are trying to do, I'd try making one more post, then try again. I'm not sure if the threshold is 10 posts, but you have 9 so far (when I posted) so worth a shot. Not sure if this will indeed help in your case, but I have seen it with others; you need a certain number of accepted posts before the File Manager image feature works. I'm just not sure what that number is. Oh, and you need to be in full reply mode or Edit reply mode .. the quick reply window doesn't offer this option at all.
EDIT - I see you got it now
I have also used EZDrums and others like it without issue, so hopefully someone here can help figure out the issue.
/I think RB can open a BiaB file and allow using EZDrummer at the same time. //I wonder what that result would be for you (as a test)
Last edited by rharv; 03/16/2001:39 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
And here's the final image at Bar 68 showing the extra jump in off-sync.
So
Image #1 shows in sync from start to Bar 35.
Image #2 shows off-sync from Bar 36
Image #3 shows same off-sync at Bar 67 as at Bar 36
Image #4 shows extra off-sync from Bar 68 to end of song
I'll be positive through this as whilst still trying to resolve my problem, I have found out in a period of a few days that you are extremely willing and helpful souls on this forum AND I have learnt how to upload images.
I hope anyone seeing my screenshots will spot something obviously simple.
To Pipeline : I notice that your screenshot in Reaper shows the BIAB drum track isolated from the _CBOOGS2 Style and it makes me wonder if the isolated drum track was altered when matching with the 2x guitar tracks and Bass track when making up the Style ?? It's just a wild grab at some explanation. I wonder if I went to the trouble of bringing in the 4x isolated tracks that make up the Style, into Cakewalk and see if I get a different story (well, I do mean song).
Hope you can stick with me through this. Many, many thanks and all the best,
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