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I'd love to know how many of our on-line co-conspirators are working full-time making a living as songwriters / musicians? I know that there are many very talented and knowledgeable folk here, but how many are / were walking the talk as it were? I realise some folk won't / can't say but still I'd like to ask the question. 
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Full time musician? Yes
Songwriter? No
I make the majority of my income by gigging, and have done so most of my life (so far).
I also do a part-time Band-in-a-Box aftermarket thing, which is still music, some of it writing music parts, but writing entire songs is just something I never could quite get. The lyrics I've written always sound stupid to me.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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Back in my younger days I was a full time guitar player in a band for several years. Yeah, we made enough money to pay our bills too. It was fun but the times changed and so did the priorities.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I have made a living for over 25 years. I write and produce jingles for radio/tv and now social media.
I also do top line writing for other jingle producers, and on rare occasion song writing/top line writing for bands.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 03/13/20 05:26 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Apprentice
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Full time songwriter, since 1985. Also was an artist on Decca briefly (1996) and am currently producing some artists in the Texas/Reddirt market.
Last edited by Roger Brown; 03/13/20 08:57 AM.
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HTL & Roger.... In this context, I think it's quite an accomplishment to have pursued the music industry as a profession and nurtured the connections/relationships necessary to have longevity in the industry. Writing jingles?....I've often thought I would have an interest in that aspect of music even though I'm less than fond of ads/commercials in general. Although, I do think I would get weary having to write to any formula/subject matter. Obviously, I know nothing of how writing teams actually work. I'm very particular about subject/story lines/continuity of lyrics and avoiding cliche writing as much as possible. No...that doesn't mean I think I'm good at. I just write to my own creative satisfaction and quite aware I will never have mass appeal....not in my lifetime. I hope you both continue to have great success with your music endeavors.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 03/13/20 01:14 PM.
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Writing jingles?....I've often thought I would have an interest in that aspect of music even though I'm less than fond of ads/commercials in general. I saw it as a way to stay creative, have a casual work environment, develop my "catchy-ness chops" and get paid to do it. I hadn't counted on, or even thought of the networking that would come out of it. Don't get me wrong, it's a job; but there are worse by far (for me). Also, I feel, most ads are terrible because of the in-authenticity of them. I strive not to have to that.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I've played professionally for nearly 60 years with many of the best jazz players in the world. My compositions have been recorded by others. However, except for a few brief periods, I did not have to make a living at it. In college, I made money doing transcriptions and arrangements for those who could not. During grad school, I was the staff trumpet player at a regional theater with weekly national touring acts (best job I ever had by far).
Fortunately, there were other things I could do for a career. The music business is not a career I can recommend anyone take at this time.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Howdy Matt....
You and Notes also have my respect for making it all work over the long haul.
I'm sure it was never easy but you stuck with it and adapted to the times as the decades rolled on by.
It's so different now than when I was playing clubs/casuals....1970-1980.
Have a great day all....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 03/15/20 05:34 AM.
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...
It's so different now than when I was playing clubs/casuals....1970-1980...
Except for the money.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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[quote=chulaivet1966]Except for the money. Ha...good catch Matt. The last band I was in (a bit over 3 years) was 80% original music. We were a 5 piece light rock band and getting about 200-250 per gig at the clubs. Casuals/corporates...they can be better paying but those weren't the bulk of our gigs. It was mainly clubs in California that kept us busy. I have no clue what clubs/dance venues (provided there is still some left) pay these days but I'd guess they are few and far between now anyway. Have a good one....
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Howdy Matt....
You and Notes also have my respect for making it all work over the long haul.
I'm sure it was never easy but you stuck with it and adapted to the times as the decades rolled on by.
It's so different now than when I was playing clubs/casuals....1970-1980.
Have a great day all....
It's a matter of finding the most reliable market in your area, playing to that market, listening to the audience requests, and changing with the times. In Florida the biggest, most steady market is the retirement folks, yacht clubs, country clubs, and retirement communities. When we started it was Big Band Jazz and Swing, playing rock and roll was verboten. Then the Elvis, Chuck Berry folks entered the 55+ communities, followed by Motown, the Beatles and other British invasion groups, Disco, and so on. We don't play "Satin Doll" or "Perdido" anymore, but we do play "Heart Of Rock And Roll" and "Blurred Lines". Elvis still works, but not too much of that era. Other than a few 'crossover' tunes, anything in the last 10 years isn't going to work anymore than "Moonglow" would. When rap comes in, I'm going to have to make some serious decisions All in all, the money isn't great, but I wouldn't trade it for a normal job. I'm glad I made this decision, and it's been decent to me. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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When we started it was Big Band Jazz and Swing, playing rock and roll was verboten. Then the Elvis, Chuck Berry folks entered the 55+ communities, followed by Motown, the Beatles and other British invasion groups, Disco, and so on. We don't play "Satin Doll" or "Perdido" anymore, but we do play "Heart Of Rock And Roll" and "Blurred Lines".
Elvis still works, but not too much of that era. Other than a few 'crossover' tunes, anything in the last 10 years isn't going to work anymore than "Moonglow" would.
I'm so glad you brought this up; as I have wondered this for a while. I know with jingles if my client is in their late 50's to 70's, at times, I have to let advertisers in on a little secret. What "oldies" are has changed." If they are advertising to seniors, they tend to think the music needs to sound like THEIR grandparents music. Paul McCartney is 77! So, let's keep that in mind. All in all, the money isn't great, but I wouldn't trade it for a normal job. I'm glad I made this decision, and it's been decent to me. This maybe should be a different subject, but since you identified yourself as being a gigging musician, any idea on how the C-19 will be affecting what you do?
Last edited by HearToLearn; 03/16/20 12:41 PM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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<...snip...>
This maybe should be a different subject, but since you identified yourself as being a gigging musician, any idea on how the C-19 will be affecting what you do? I've lost almost all my gigs in the rest of March and April. I still have my once-a-week gig in an outdoor restaurant, but the crowds are thinning and Florida or our county might end up closing restaurants. Other than that, all I have left are 2 private party gigs in April that haven't been canceled (yet). These are very unusual times, and a lot of people are doing worse than me, so I'm counting my blessings. Being self-employed means keeping a couple of month's income in a savings account for times like these. I haven't had to dip into that fund since the early 1990s, and although I hate to do it, that's what it's there for. So we'll tighten our belts, and I'll have more time to work on new style disks and fake disks for Band-in-a-Box (my part-time "moonlighting" job might become full-time for a while). Back on topic When pitching jingles to clients after the older generation, you can use a quote I got from an audience member a couple of years ago. We were playing a retirement condominium complex, there were some 90 year old people there, so we figured we'd throw out a couple of swing standards ("Chattanooga Choo-Choo" and "So Rare") and this woman comes up and says, "You know, Harry James is dead." If you were 10 when Elvis Presley hit the charts, you would be 75 now. Survival goes to those who can adapt to the times. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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[quote=chulaivet1966 It's a matter of finding the most reliable market in your area, playing to that market, listening to the audience requests, and changing with the times. I totally agree. Ha....on the 'rap' thought. Me?...rap/hip-hop has absolutely no appeal to me ....guess I'd starve to death if I had to go that direction to continue as a performing artist. Back to it....
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This pretty much sums up the situation for me. 
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They did the same here.
I'm unemployed at least until June, and probably all summer.
The tri-county area shuttered restaurants to take-out only, closed museums, stores in the malls are shutting down, schools are closed, anything that draws a crowd or 10 people or more are closed, all the Canadians have gone home and the entire tourism economy is DOA.
It's going to get worse before it gets better, but we plan on getting through this.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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TheMaartian-That's funny.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Honestly, I only gig once a week and I am thinking about going into music education mainly in college.
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer
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Interesting thread.
I am not full time (yet) as I still have a career as an It professional but I have been building an online business for the last few years. I hope that, eventually, that will pay almost the same as my "real job" and enable me to give up my real job.
My main streams of music-related income are varied and include (in descending order)... my Youtube channel, BIAB sales, my course and eBooks, Fiverr, Online BIAB coaching, Patreon, music licensing, music streaming/downloads (originals and covers), live streaming and gigging.
My philosophy is "do more of what works and less of what doesn't". So at the moment, I am focusing on my Youtube channel and BIAB sales.
Last edited by JoanneCooper; 03/18/20 05:21 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
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Team PG
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