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nonchai, let me also make a suggestion. Please carefully read John Fords post. It will help you understand the core differences between the plugin, and BiaB. The render times are actually behind the curtain very similar. Since the plugin waits for the generation to be completed, and BiaB allows the playback to begin while generation continues it gives the impression that it is slower. This is because they were made differently for different reasons.
Both allow for tracks to be completed to create music. BiaB was made to allow the music to be changed and altered quicklly. Keep in mind that drop and drag is a somewhat new feature in Biab. Drop and drag is the whole point in the plugin. Working in the DAW is its only purpose.
Suggestion, when tinkering with a song if want to make small changes like try a different guitar, or add a organ, and such this can be done in the plugin before dragging tracks, and just that track can be generated which is usually much faster. Chord and major structural changes will take longer. If you need to do that use BiaB. If I want to cut on 2x4 I use my skill saw. If I need to cut 100 pieces I get out my Chop saw, set up a stop block and start cutting.
Point being drag and drop was added to BiaB for this reason so folks could tinker and experiment and when they got precisely what they needed drag to DAW. The plugin was created for a different purpose some DAW users that didn’t want to use BiaB, or dig in and learn it, or just wanted to quickly add tracks to the DAW the plugin was created so they would have a tool for that.
I personally have done a ton of testing and multiple songs in the plugin. My usual regeneration time on my old laptop is maybe 2 to 3 minutes sometime 5 for a real big project. I’m not put off with that. Do I wish it was a tad faster, yes. But I can deal with it since I understand what it is doing for me. If I had to generated these same track with several other VSTis it would take far longer than 5 minutes. And if I had to make a change to the track due to added chorus, different chords or the like I would have to make those same changes in several different VSTIs then once again 5 minutes would be a blessing.
I appreciate where your coming from, but respectfully think you are not seeing the big picture. Until the plugin was added this had to be done either in BiaB, or done with various other plugins.
On a side note there are other programs that do the whole thing in one box. Captain chords, scaler, etc. and while they do a decent job, even a good one, they don’t have 10% of the capability of BiaB. Finally this thread was not started to hammer out these type issues but to garner support for the express purpose of encouraging PGM to fix the basic advertised and promised feature bugs in the plugin. We can discuss render times and how to work with that on another thread.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Over 20 minutes vs 10 seconds to generate 9 chorus song in plugin vs standalone 9 x 72bars 4/4 @ 40bpm what's that over an hour play time ? Now in BB open that song again without play/generating it and go straight to Render tracks then time it until you have all the tracks as wav or aif
Last edited by Pipeline; 03/14/20 09:53 AM.
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Great test to understand the render time differences. Thanks
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Tighten your seatbelts guys now that Mac 2020 Is released, and wow really early this year. I expect to see some love for the backend features in the plugin.
I think it is appropriate to give PGM a round of applause. They really dug in and covered some ground. We and I really include myself in this comment rode them hard, and pressured for a fix. Well the PGM lead by Peter and the team put in some hard work, and really gave themselves some breathing room for this cycle. Now if they do what I think they are doing and address the plugin issues this could be one of the best cycles yet.
Thanks to everyone who posted here and kept this thread alive. We all really want PGM to continue to thrive into the next generation, and tapping into the DAW users market can help in that area.
Last edited by Rob Helms; 03/17/20 03:32 PM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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It will be great when it works as advertised.
I.M.H.O. it will not only greatly improve the workflow between the DAW especially if they get the 300 RD to work and the direct input option to work, but will drive more impromptu desires such as regenerating bars for a selected region.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Yes I agree that the export to audio times are Pretty much identical to BIAB stand alone. But thats not how I want to use the plugin. I want to have waiting times to playback - PLAYBACK be the same as in BIAB standalone. I don't want to be forced to be dragging ANY audio files into the DAW at all. I rely on the directly streamed audio. And just as for standalone - theres no reason this couldnt be done same as standalone eventually. The whole heft of my points are concerting the simple task of making changes to the arrangement and then getting into a state where one can start to play with or use the result. The basic implication behind what a lot of the people responding here all the "apples and oranges" talk... seems to be that the plugin wasn't "intended" to be so and so.... I find this to be a lame excuse. Maybe for those putting forward these apples and oranges arguments they never had the intent or expectation to use the plugin with the same kind of M O as BIAB standalone - where the NON RENDERED TO DISK waiting times are fine and useable but RENDERED TO DISK waiting times are so slow that one only does it when everything is finalised. But here's the thing. When in BIAB standalone one gets the advantage of a rapid change-and-test cycle and then when ready do the slow export. But people suggesting that one shouldn't also expect the same to be possible in the plugin clearly expect people like me to have TWO apps open at the same time - BIAB Standalone AND the plugin. This is ridiculous. Specially after V2. since there are now enough features from BIAB standalone in the plugin to allow us to do a lot of song creation and arranging in just a DAW+plugin workflow. Its just the waiting time that makes this M O impractical. Think if any other plugin that exists out there which is some kind of music-arrangement creator - like Propellerheads REASON plugin - Native Instruments MASCHINE - and you will not see this artificial "apples and oranges" demarcation between their Standalone version of their technology and the plugin. I might add that its a little disappointing that even in v 2.0 there's no multi-channel output feature in there yet. We are talking about a plugin that sits in a DAW that generates audio for multiple tracks - instruments - yet only provides stereo in the live real-time audio streamed into the DAW. Name any other plugin where the producer-user would be expected to do this dragging and dropping of data ( whether audio or MIDI ) into the DAW tracks - for the plugin to work. It doesn't happen. Yes many have drag and drop features typically for MIDI export. But its not the NORMAL method in which the user is expected to use the plugin. PG Music have form in using words in a very loose fashion. Many years back they added a kind of "plugin-mode" to be able to drag audio file data into a DAW. That wasn't a plugin at all. Now we have an actual plugin - but one which barely operates as any plugin that internally generates multiple parts of audio would do. Its a kind of half-arsed compromise.
Last edited by nonchai; 03/19/20 11:17 PM.
MacOS Sequoia, M4 Pro Mac Mini , 64GB RAM 512GB SSD ,
BIAB, Cubase, Ableton, Logic Pro, SCALER 3, GigLad, AnyTune, Synthesizer V Pro,Vienna Ensemble Pro, Audiofuse, Fractal FM3, KOMPLETE 15, StreamDeck, iReal Pro
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You should of suggested all this years ago to give them heads up, I was the one that pushed for years for the Plugin as I was using RealBand that uses bbw2 in the same way for years so I suggested doing it the same way using bbw2 for the Plugin. After it was released I suggested play from RAM so all you can do is wait.
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Nonchai, if you want to request things like this please start a new thread, either here or in the wish or request forum. This thread is for discussion and hopefully resolution of the previously promised items for this years and last years release. I understand what you want. So feel free to ask for it through the proper channels. There might be others that will support you. What we are trying to do here is get the things that have already been implemented to function properly, before requesting anything new.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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MacOS Sequoia, M4 Pro Mac Mini , 64GB RAM 512GB SSD ,
BIAB, Cubase, Ableton, Logic Pro, SCALER 3, GigLad, AnyTune, Synthesizer V Pro,Vienna Ensemble Pro, Audiofuse, Fractal FM3, KOMPLETE 15, StreamDeck, iReal Pro
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Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Nice, that help all understand what we asking for in fixes. Hopefully that’s what is happening behind the scenes.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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FYI IMHO the priority of fixing the features that do not work based on how DAW users would want to work with the plugin renders. 1) MIDI version of the drums would be a big bonus to allow for Multitrack mixing/replacing of drums. 2) Dry (no reverb) mixes are important to use the more sophisticated reverbs in the DAW. 3) Adding embed tempo just saves a step of manually entering that data in order to adjust tempos after the dropping files into the DAW. 4) Center pan stereo tracks allow the DAW user to do their own positioning of the track. 5) Dry tracks allow DAW users to add their own AMp simulators to fine tun the distortion. 6) This allows the DAW user to work within the plugin to change the instrument mix for verses, pre-chorus, chorus, and bridges. 7) This allows the DAW user to work within the plugin to change the drum mix for verses, pre-chorus, chorus, and bridges. The rest get us to a point where any song made in BiaB would play identical in the plugin. 
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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This is why you need a Tempo Embedded (what PGM calls Acidized) in the Plugin Options to work. MIDI files always have tempo embedded. (you don't get choice) Audio files without tempo will not sync to each other if you change the tempo while in the DAW. (Studio One, Cakewalk, Reaper V6) This is important to a DAW user as they continue to develop their song. 
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Because these Options still do not work the DAW user cannot make choices about panning or reverb.It is also important to note that they can not try to make these changes in BiaB and Import the song to be Rendered. At the moment you are stuck with PGM mix from the plugin. These are some of the first things a DAW user is going to want. 
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Attention PGM development!!!! We have seen some work done on the front end by Adar, and thanks to him for that. But we have yet to see one single fix from the back end developers. I ask is this not going to happen? If there is going to be no further progress this year then please tell us. So we can stop asking and posting and hoping.
Several of us here have invested a lot of time and effort into figuring out, and detailing the base features needed to make this plugin totally useable. I for one have several projects that I want to do that will go much better if the features listed actually worked. I don’t enjoy having to “trick” the tools into doing what it should. I just wish you folks would break silence and let us know what is happening. Is it to much to ask for you to at the very least let us know what you intend to do about this. If you have no intention on fixing these things just say so, and we will save our virtual breath. Move on use other means to accomplish what we need and save frustration.
This down time for the world is the perfect time to accomplish this so many people are sitting around with time to create. You could pick up many new DAW users who have time to explore this option.
Finally please, just communicate with your customers.
Last edited by Rob Helms; 04/11/20 12:46 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Attention PGM development!!!! We have seen some work done on the front end by Adar, and thanks to him for that. But we have yet to see one single fix from the back end developers. I ask is this not going to happen? If there is going to be no further progress this year then please tell us. So we can stop asking and posting and hoping.
Several of us here have invested a lot of time and effort into figuring out, and detailing the base features needed to make this plugin totally useable. I for one have several projects that I want to do that will go much better if the features listed actually worked. I don’t enjoy having to “trick” the tools into doing what it should. I just wish you folks would break silence and let us know what is happening. Is it to much to ask for you to at the very least let us know what you intend to do about this. If you have no intention on fixing these things just say so, and we will save our virtual breath. Move on use other means to accomplish what we need and save frustration.
This down time for the world is the perfect time to accomplish this so many people are sitting around with time to create. You could pick up many new DAW users who have time to explore this option.
Finally please, just communicate with your customers. +1 Well said Rob. Maybe they are mostly done with it.
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Attention PGM development!!!! We have seen some work done on the front end by Adar, and thanks to him for that. But we have yet to see one single fix from the back end developers. I ask is this not going to happen? If there is going to be no further progress this year then please tell us. So we can stop asking and posting and hoping.
Several of us here have invested a lot of time and effort into figuring out, and detailing the base features needed to make this plugin totally useable. I for one have several projects that I want to do that will go much better if the features listed actually worked. I don’t enjoy having to “trick” the tools into doing what it should. I just wish you folks would break silence and let us know what is happening. Is it to much to ask for you to at the very least let us know what you intend to do about this. If you have no intention on fixing these things just say so, and we will save our virtual breath. Move on use other means to accomplish what we need and save frustration.
This down time for the world is the perfect time to accomplish this so many people are sitting around with time to create. You could pick up many new DAW users who have time to explore this option.
Finally please, just communicate with your customers. +1 Well said Rob. Maybe they are mostly done with it. Don't hold your breath  PS - I do hope that they are working on this as it could be the wave of the future for PGMusic.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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John to the third power, I couldn’t agree more I also hope they are working on this. I guess where I’m at is I have been hoping for that since December. I really do hope so, but I am frustrated that we can’t even get any confirmation as to “if”or “when” or ”not” or whatever.
Mario you are on the money.
I want to add that I don’t mean to be so negative but it is getting very frustrating. We finally get a new version it is more broken than the previous one. And I do not blame Adar for that. There is only so much he can do. Most of the feature fixes are backend development issues.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 60 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until December 31, 2025. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
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