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Hi, dragging and dropping is nice, but, since BIAB gives you the chords and all, the melody... I also prefer to use band in a box directly.
My setup for playing and practicing is:
*download loopbe, freely available,
*disable vst in band in a box,
*in midi options disable all send messages (patch messages, panning...)
*in preferences-overrides, disable all sends
*assign midi out to loopbe
*start Kontakt, choose loopbe midi in
*pick the correct channels for each instrument.
Then: enjoy the great sounds of Kontakt libraries. If you wish, you can use UVI or other vsts, even synthfont as your preferred synth.
If I want to record, I use no midi out and load Kontakt as a VST using Default synth and loading my patches in Kontakt
If you disable all sends it keeps your setup intact (if you always use the same drum n bass n piano
You can save songs with vst patches if you switch instruments.
Hope this helps you This is really interesting...so you are running Kontakt standalone to play back music from within BIAB, and then using Kotakt as a VST within BIAB for recording? None of this with a DAW? (I am trying to get the overall picture clear before diving into the details) Glenn
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Glenn, this may work for you. Although I do not have to do this as using Pipline's utility I can bring the chords into Studio One Pro I just experimented and found that this works, at least for me.
Mario, tell me how Pipeline works...I don't really know Studio One, but anything that brings chords into a DAW sounds interesting. I had a starter copy of Studio One once, but didn't see a major advantage over Mixcraft.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=544133#Post544133
Get your BiaB song as you want using the included GM. Using the drag and drop bring the tracks into your DAW and assign your sounds to those tracks. Now in your DAW open the BiaB VSTi and load your song into it. Now you can see your chord sheet and it will follow your DAW, thus you can see what measure you are on and what chord is assigned to that measure. The nice thing is that the BiaB VSTi is scalable so you can make it a large as your monitor if you wish. Using this method you can use the better sounds in your DAW, record your vocals in your DAW, while you view the BiaB measure and chords. Yes, interesting, thank you. I really haven't given the BIAB VST a fair trial...since on a track, in my DAW, it has the same GM sounds. Offhand, I wonder if that is any different than simply leaving BIAB up in a window on my second monitor.
You will hear your better sounds in your DAW and not the GM sounds from the VSTi. At least that is what happens here.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Coyote Forte is a decent sounding relatively inexpensive software GM MIDI synth. One downside: you have to run the 32-bit version of BIAB. As far as I know, you won't lose anything. https://www.pgmusic.com/coyotefortedxi.htmYou've already heard the demos on Dare to Compare. Matt, I tried that out this afternoon...spent most of the time figuring out how it worked in BIAB. Much better sound. I really appreciate you nudging me in that direction. I think that takes care of the short term problem, using the 32-bit software. Matt, with the Integra 7, are you using this in a performance environment, or directly for composition, or integrated with a DAW? Thanks again for the help. Glenn
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I’m not a keyboard player so I do not use it in performance. I use it in BIAB and a DAW, plus my music notation programs.
I love the convenience of a hardware MIDI synth (except for rendering, which requires playback in real time). But my Roland unit is old, and overkill. If I had to start over, I would go the software route.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Hey Glenn,
I do exactly what you derived.
*Playing? Using Kontakt as standalone by means of loopbe.
*Recording: kontakt as default synth as vst in Biab
It’s the least troublesome way for me, without much hassle. And it works.
There are such nice libraries around the web. I don’t buy the real expensive ones, but some are worth their weight in gold. For acoustic drums the Abbey Road drums must be the most beautiful and flexible ones around. And you can pick an instrument for every drum note, so you have flexible mapping.
Have fun playing.
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
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Another great sounding program is EastWest Play: http://www.soundsonline.com/This has great sounds but it is also very expensive, more so the the above mentioned programs. Mario, I am seeing ads for the whole EastWest library, the Composer Cloud X, for $199/year. Is this the library you are talking about? I realize you don't own anything when you do this, but do you think this is a good price? It seems so to me. Glenn
Last edited by Tiger; 04/01/20 04:43 AM.
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I read that add as $199 is the introductory one year price. The real price is $360 a year.
As I say previously "If so here is what I would do. Forget about changing sounds in BiaB as you are working with the same low end GM sounds. Drag and drop the BiaB MIDI tracks to Mixcraft and learn how to assign your Kontakt player to each and every track. For now add a different Kontakt player to each track. Then assign different sounds to each track via the player. It isn't that hard. If you are having difficulties let me know and I will DL the Mixcraft demo and try it myself; or maybe some here who uses Mixcraft can help."
I would do this prior to purchasing anything else. Once you get this concept down the explore other avenues. Personally for you I think Kontakt is a much better purchase then EastWest; but wait for the full Kontakt to go on sale if you want/need it for some presets. Kontakt has a lot of third party presets available, even for the player. This should satisfy your needs for many years, at least it has mine. Kontakt, a few specialized VSTis, and a number of free VSTis are my main MIDI sound sources. I do have EastWest's Symphonic Choirs that I occasionally use but now Kontakt has some choirs that are as good as if not better now. YMMV
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I read that add as $199 is the introductory one year price. The real price is $360 a year. Good to know, I missed that. As I say previously "If so here is what I would do. Forget about changing sounds in BiaB as you are working with the same low end GM sounds. Drag and drop the BiaB MIDI tracks to Mixcraft and learn how to assign your Kontakt player to each and every track. For now add a different Kontakt player to each track. Then assign different sounds to each track via the player. I don't want you to think I ignored you. I heard you and I tried it with the Kontakt 5 player. Having a Kontakt player open on each track is very awkward; the windows won't minimize. I have a relatively new system built by a tech guy, solid-state drives, and loading and unloading instruments to try them out got very slow. It worked, but you had to be patient. Instrument quality was very good on what I loaded, but the factory instrument selection is sparse. No piano for instance, no drum kit with brushes, and for drums it looked like you were supposed to split the track, with each drum part on a separate track. At any rate, standard mapping didn't work. Perhaps you can DM me the name of those free quality VSTs that you like. I only mentioned EastWest because you mentioned it and I saw the ad. I am just moving over a project from BIAB with bass, drums, piano, strings and French Horn. I can use the Chris Hein Session Horns package and substitute something for the French Horns, as I don't have any orchestral stuff. I could use some strings;) if you have any ideas. I am also going to look at migrating to Studio One, when I finish this project and have some time to investigate. There are some high-end features in the Pro version that look appealing. Thanks for your help. Glenn
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re:Mixcraft
Maybe I misunderstood your concern with respect to Mixcraft and Kontakt or other VSTi GUIs, if so ignore my little "how to:"
Load Kontakt on the track, pick sound/instrument (set other desired parameters as well, channel, port, reverb, ...) then close it for that track if its in your visual road. But Note, that DOES NOT delete or unload Kontakt on that track, it just closes the Kontakt GUI for that track.
If you need to, or want, to see the Kontakt GUI (any VSTi GUI) on a track just right click on the little keyboard Icon on the far left of track screen.
Good Luck
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 04/01/20 11:02 AM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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...................
I don't want you to think I ignored you. I heard you and I tried it with the Kontakt 5 player. Having a Kontakt player open on each track is very awkward; the windows won't minimize. I have a relatively new system built by a tech guy, solid-state drives, and loading and unloading instruments to try them out got very slow. It worked, but you had to be patient. Instrument quality was very good on what I loaded, but the factory instrument selection is sparse. No piano for instance, no drum kit with brushes, and for drums it looked like you were supposed to split the track, with each drum part on a separate track. At any rate, standard mapping didn't work. Perhaps you can DM me the name of those free quality VSTs that you like. I only mentioned EastWest because you mentioned it and I saw the ad.
I am just moving over a project from BIAB with bass, drums, piano, strings and French Horn. I can use the Chris Hein Session Horns package and substitute something for the French Horns, as I don't have any orchestral stuff. I could use some strings;) if you have any ideas.
https://techraver.com/free-drum-vst-plugins/
https://thehomerecordings.com/free-orchestral-vst/
https://soundtips.net/piano-vst/
Note that I do not have any experience with many of these VSTis
I am also going to look at migrating to Studio One, when I finish this project and have some time to investigate. There are some high-end features in the Pro version that look appealing.
Thanks for your help.
Glenn
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Just my 50 cents here... There is an older Kontakt library that is little known, but has a very decent sound and contains all the bread and butter sounds you need. Vir2.com has the vi.one. It is an older library, but still, a hefty 21 gb of samples. Pianos, basses are very good, the drums are really good. In comparison to the Kontakt factory library or JABB3 from Garritan, it is way better. If you like trumpets and saxophones, vi.one has got some nice samples right there. Following this discussion, I realized why I chose to play guitar and piano with band in a box, using only the midi bass and drums. I only pick styles with acoustic bass and brush drums, or I tweaked styles and made my own. This way I can “jukebox” a whole song folder (standards, modern jazz...) without once having to change instruments. I can play a whole evening without any hassle or loading or unloading samples. Is nice! This way I have fun playing, like with a band.  wasn’t that the whole purpose of Band in a Box? Have fun playing.
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
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re:Mixcraft
Load Kontakt on the track, pick sound/instrument (set other desired parameters as well, channel, port, reverb, ...) then close it for that track if its in your visual road. But Note, that DOES NOT delete or unload Kontakt on that track, it just closes the Kontakt GUI for that track. Larry, thanks, I did know that and shouldn't have complained, or just complained more clearly  . I was having trouble getting the Kontakt tracks to play. I could play from my Midi keyboard to the Kontakt instrument on any track, but when I pressed Play, for the track or the piece, it wasn't playing the MIDI track...just silence. So I was leaving the Kontakt windows open, going back and forth, trying things... The problem was solved by setting the Kontakt player to "Omni", rather than a particular channel. I am not sure where in Mixcraft it specifies the channel/port it is sending info to the Kontakt player. It apparently isn't using the Port A/Channel 1 that seems to be the Kontakt default. (The input channel for MIDI devices is right there on the track, and I have that set to All.) At some point, I will have to figure out how Mixcraft uses channels/ports to talk to the Player, but for right now I have put that aside in favour of actually working on music. Let me know if you know anything about that setting. Thanks again! Glenn
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Hi Glen,
A couple of things, one, as Dzjang indicated the vi.one is a good sounding set and I think it is included in one of the lists I sent. How it sounds when compared to other sound sets is a personal thing.
If Kontakt works in Omni but not in Port A/Channel 1 then your MIDI keyboard controller is not set to channel 1. Check your keyboard manual, set the output to channel 1, and all will be fine.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Hi Glen,
If Kontakt works in Omni but not in Port A/Channel 1 then your MIDI keyboard controller is not set to channel 1. Check your keyboard manual, set the output to channel 1, and all will be fine.
After loading Kontakt on the track, keys pressed on the keyboard played in Kontakt, so I think the midi keyboard is not the problem. It was when I played a clip of midi notes from the DAW (an imported clip) that nothing sounded in Kontakt. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Glenn
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Hi Glen,
If Kontakt works in Omni but not in Port A/Channel 1 then your MIDI keyboard controller is not set to channel 1. Check your keyboard manual, set the output to channel 1, and all will be fine.
After loading Kontakt on the track, keys pressed on the keyboard played in Kontakt, so I think the midi keyboard is not the problem. It was when I played a clip of midi notes from the DAW (an imported clip) that nothing sounded in Kontakt. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Glenn Then make sure that your DAW's MIDI track output is set to channel one. For any MIDI VSTi to sound, either from a keyboard or a MIDI track, the channels must match.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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You probably should watch this video all the way through https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zFecOaD4CUForget that he's using Ableton - MIDI is MIDI and a DAW is (usually) a DAW well that's essentially true. Usually just things like controls in different places and GUI's laid out differently (e.g., US cars with controls on left versus the backwards  British cars with controls on right because they drive on wrong side of the "track" again to all my FIVE EYES friends ) Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Hi Glenn, Welcome to the forum and to Band-in-a-Box. There are two midi sounds you may want to consider. First is the TTS-1 virtual sound module from Cakewalk by BandLab and second is the Timbres Of Heaven virtual instruments. Both have the advantages of sounding good and are available for free. The TTS-1 is 100percent general midi compatible so whatever midi instrument Band-in-a-Box selects the sound module will playback. The sound module can playback up to 16 instruments at the same time. The instruments sound about as good, or a little better, than the Coyote Forte instruments. TTS-1 was one of the sound modules used in the PG Music comparison. +++ HERE +++ is a recommendation from PG Music's leader, Peter Gannon. The downsides are only the 64 bit TTS-1 is available and you must install the free Windows DAW, Cakewalk by BandLab. Another plus is you also receive the Studio Instruments VST suite of strings, electric piano, electric bass and drums. +++ Timbres Of Heaven +++ is a gm compatible Soundfont. The Soundfont is a large (about 256 MB) set of instrument patches that can be loaded and played in any Soundfont sound module including Sforzando and Synthfont. The Soundfont was developed by Don Allen to provide high quality playback of midi Karaoke and gaming files.
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Just my 50 cents here...
There is an older Kontakt library that is little known, but has a very decent sound and contains all the bread and butter sounds you need. Vir2.com has the vi.one.
It is an older library, but still, a hefty 21 gb of samples. Pianos, basses are very good, the drums are really good. In comparison to the Kontakt factory library or JABB3 from Garritan, it is way better. Thanks for this it might be just what I need. At US$99 it seems a fair price. I’m halfway through the download. This should keep me busy in confinement. Thanks and keep well all Tony
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Just my 50 cents here...
There is an older Kontakt library that is little known, but has a very decent sound and contains all the bread and butter sounds you need. Vir2.com has the vi.one.
It is an older library, but still, a hefty 21 gb of samples. Pianos, basses are very good, the drums are really good. In comparison to the Kontakt factory library or JABB3 from Garritan, it is way better. Thanks for this it might be just what I need. At US$99 it seems a fair price. I’m halfway through the download. This should keep me busy in confinement. Thanks and keep well all Tony Tony, let us know how you like it. I am very interested, but don't want to get distracted while trying to finish a project right now. Would appreciate your thoughts after using it a bit. Glenn
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Well, there are many people looking for better ways to handle MIDI instruments. Kontakt is fairly expensive. Kontakt Player is free but it is very much more restrictive and often good Kontakt Libraries cannot be used with Kontakt Player or are more expensive than the full Kontakt version.
A couple of weeks ago I mentioned some free libraries for Sforzando that were ok but really require a little More understanding to work effectively. (Look up VSCO2 They have some ok free SFZ libraries that can be used in Sforzando)
Ok so back to VI.ONE. It took a little while for me to get it installed and registered (had I followed the instructions it would have been seconds). There are an unbelievable amount of different Sounds available. Some are really good. I decided to change a MIDI song that I did years ago using TTS1 to use Kontakt and the VI.ONE libraries. Some bits were better others maybe not so but I still need to do more playing.
Am I disappointed I spent the US$99 absolutely not. This is giving me a heap of new choices.
There you go, long winded but that is what I found going through the process. (Being basically confined to my unit has given me even more time than usual).
Keep well all
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 04/02/20 11:58 PM.
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Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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