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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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After working with BIAB/Real Band for about a year I've got a large selection of backing tracks I use for my acoustic guitar/vocal gigs. I'm really happy with the sound, thanks to a lot of good advice in this forum.
I'm putting together a demo disc this weekend, and will be adding vocals and guitar to a group of songs. I made a test CD and played it through my audio system and it sounded terrible. It was way too heavy on the bass (I use acoustic bass in almost all mixes). I remixed with the bass volume down by about 30-40 and it sounds good.
Is this normal? Are backing and CD mixes different, or am I just compensating for weakness of the low end in my PA system. I've used my backing tracks on several different PA setups and they always sound great.
Brian
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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It sounds like you are compensating for the low end in the PA (good thing if needed), or your home system is bass heavy.
There is a lot of variance in different systems..
You're on the right track. This is what nearfield monitors are all about, getting the response that transfers well to most systems.
Know your monitors, know your mix. (I think I just created a new buzz phrase!)
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
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Play the CD in your car and also listen to it on headphones. You'll probably notice more differences.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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This may be a good spot to discuss some options for this.
Anyone want to tell what they use for monitoring that seems to transfer well to a lot of systems? I know a lot of it is a matter of knowing and being familiar with your own monitoring devices. But there are some things that can help. Having a system that overemphasizes and under-delivers in certain frequency ranges can make things tougher than it has to be.
One low cost headphone option is the ATH m40f/s. For me these seem to tranfer pretty well. I never finish a project in headphones, but for those times when headphones are necessary, these, to me, give a fairly good representation.
When they come off and I go to the nearfields, it seems like a pretty seamless transition most of the time.
I recently got a set of the ATH M50's (twice the price) and have liked them less and less as time goes on. To me they overemphasize a lot of the upper/lower range (especially lower). They've been delegated to lesser demanding applications. Price isn't always a representation of quality, I guess. They look cooler though <:rolleyes:>
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Before CDs I always made a cassette and played in a couple of portable players. (Boomboxes?)
Also a cheap portable that was mono, not stereo.
They always showed me when it was too much bass, even when I used two different sets of JBL near field studio monitors.
Wayne,
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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What are nearfield monitor's Ed
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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**Find a well-recorded and well-mastered CD, preferably "off the shelf" of the same type and genre of music that you are trying to record. This becomes one of your "reference" CDs.**
Play the reference CD back on your PA system.
Does the response sound okay to you?
If it does, then there is no problem with your PA system and its ability to reproduce the audio content.
If it doesn't, then this could indicate that there is something about your PA system that you have been altering your mixes in order to compensate for -- and that's the wrong way to go about it, for those same mixes are likely to "translate" to other systems with dreadful results.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I also use a pair of ATH m40f/s. I've owned them since they first came out when I read a review in Electronic Musician. I have to use cans 99% of the time. I sold my nearfields.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I always test mixes on other systems: car, crappy PC speakers, boombox etc. I never mix with headphones, but always test the mix with them. You need to test for stereo separation, and test in mono, too.
A mixing tip is to test your mix at barely audible levels, to see if you hear all the instruments. If you do, it should be fine when turned up.
Since murf100, the OP, has been making mixes with too much bass, chances are that he/she has too little bass in the mixing room. You could try different placements of the monitors in relation to the room, especially corners, or perhaps add a subwoofer.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
What are nearfield monitor's Ed
Google is our friend..
http://homerecording.com/monitors.html
First listing I got ..
Of course, what Mac says is true, but OP description of the problem suggests one system or the other is noticably off.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I always test mixes on other systems: car, crappy PC speakers, boombox etc. I never mix with headphones, but always test the mix with them. You need to test for stereo separation, and test in mono, too.
A mixing tip is to test your mix at barely audible levels, to see if you hear all the instruments. If you do, it should be fine when turned up.
Since murf100, the OP, has been making mixes with too much bass, chances are that he/she has too little bass in the mixing room. You could try different placements of the monitors in relation to the room, especially corners, or perhaps add a subwoofer.
Testing on various systems can't hurt. Once you get to really know your monitors well, it becomes pretty redundant. Never hurts though, I confess to having a few different speaker systems available in one room for this purpose. One to work with, a couple more for testing. It saves time.
Another possibility is that the OP is mixing the stuff using his PA for monitors to begin with, which is why they sound good there. That is fine for the purpose, but now that he wants a CD he has to consider it closer.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I don't do stereo for live. I do big mono.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Stereo or mono shouldn't matter, your final mixes should translate.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Getting mixes to translate from system to system..is quite difficult. It can be a really involved subject. But basically...if you have reasonable monitor speakers....place them correctly in the room.........put up some acoustic treatment at the first reflection points in the room....have some sort of bass trapping....you should be in a pretty good ball park. Its funny, people can spend thousands and thousands of dollars on microphones and microphone preamplifiers etc...but will do nothing about the room the mix and record in.... There are some fantastic sources of information on acoustics and DIY solutions for the home recordist. www.johnlsayers.comwww.gearslutz.com (the acoustics forum) www.soundonsound.com (do a site search on acoustics) There are also some good commercial solutions as well...people like. www.auralex.comwww.realtraps.comwww.gikacoustics.comIf you have any specific questions fire away...I am pretty up to date with this stuff..having just built my 3rd recording studio...8) cheers Wiz
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Stereo or mono shouldn't matter, your final mixes should translate.
It's rare, but it can matter. A mix that is fine in stereo can exhibit cancellation effects when played in mono.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Thanks for all the advice. I listened to my demo mixes on my home and car audio systems, and the mix is good.
Brian
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Yes it must translate but it still takes a little different mix technique to do backing tracks that are going to be played over a two way live sound PA with 2" horns vs your Bose 901's in your living room. I want it to sound live not multitracked.
I was a very good live sound engineer but lack when it comes to recording.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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My stuff sounds good on the PA as well as the home or pro stereo.
The mixes should translate.
If done properly.
All one need do is pop their favorite pro mixed and mastered CD on the different sound sources to prove that.
--Mac
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Quote:
Quote:
Stereo or mono shouldn't matter, your final mixes should translate.
It's rare, but it can matter. A mix that is fine in stereo can exhibit cancellation effects when played in mono.
A BAD mix or master would...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Stereo or mono shouldn't matter, your final mixes should translate.
It's rare, but it can matter. A mix that is fine in stereo can exhibit cancellation effects when played in mono.
A BAD mix or master would...
--Mac
Or mic placement, or a number of other possible causes. It's still smart to take a moment to test for this.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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