The more I think about preferred workflow in BIAB, the more I realize that having more tracks in mixer (tracks on demand) will solve most of problems and requests related to RT's count, regenerations, bar freeze (bar-by-bar regen) and MIDI.
Regenerations could be done by simply copying the track to another mixer track freezing original and have the new one available for regeneration. So you can hear them side by side and/or together with whole arrangement. Create new track - repeat process for variation.
With track duplicate -> freeze you can achieve a highly requested "BAR FREEZE" option. You will just: "bar option"->mute what you do not want to hear. Or unfreeze->regenerate will (hopefully) give you new regeneration for these bars.
To get even more creative, have a "track folders" to keep mixer tracks organized by instrument.
P.S. This is not a workaround request or request to send me to RB, this is BIAB request
Not sure why this idea did not get any traction among BIAB users.. (kindly note, I mention BIAB, not RB) Maybe I was not clear enough. Please see attached image. What I proposed perhaps will take a few more clicks, but it is far more flexible than just "bar freeze". I have a feeling that just do a "bar freeze" might be complicated because of the algorithms and "tails" of a line, so at the end it plays smoothly. These artifacts and undesirable results often can be heard when trying to "change RT" at the bar. Doing it as "mute" at the bar, solves that. Expanding mixer would also cover many other popular requests (more channels / MIDI). More channels = more variations/possibilities.
I did have a little difficulty following, but the image has clarified.
Yes, that would be very usable. Well thought out.
+1
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
I would MUCH rather they just add a bar-by-bar regen operation. Far, far simpler to use. I appreciate your idea but it is complicated to even comprehend much less to use.
Just add a little arrow to each bar and when I click the arrow a small dropdown entitled Regen appears and it lets me click a track to regen. NOTHING else in the song changes. It is fast and simple to understand what is happening. I can instantly play and hear the change and if I like it I freeze the entire track and I'm done. If I don't like it I just try again.
As for RealTrack segments or riffs that don't fit in a single bar give me an option to ignore them or use them. If "use them" then go ahead and alter a bar before and after my selection.
Oh and make UNDO work on this to be able to step backwards if I want to.
I hear you. One of my first annoyances with BIAB was that tracks are too "liquid". However I strongly feel that even if the feature of "bar freeze" arrives, it would not sound smooth. Most likely it would sound "pieced". Not because of programming, but because of what Real Tracks are - audio... I do fear that they would sound abrupt as often happens with "change RT at the bar" option. But what I described, should take care of roughness.
Your suggestion seems more user friendly., but in essence bar freeze as you describe would create new tracks in the background and automate the process for the user... but will have significantly less control of what you are actually seeing and doing versus what I described above. Developers... feel free to cut me short if I am wrong.
As per topic, I do feel that expanding / rethinking mixer is the right way to go. If it is done right, a bar freeze as you (JJJ) described can be done much easier, by automating what is already in place - Creating multiple generations in background and visually displaying it as a single track of which parts can be frozen. Similar to "track folders" where you visually see it as a single track that contains several clips and has master control (volume, fx etc.) over the whole "folder".
Expanding mixer would also solve major requests such as dedicated 16 channels of MIDI and just adding, trying out / comparing various real tracks side by side without going through export/import to DAW.
I hear you. One of my first annoyances with BIAB was that tracks are too "liquid". However I strongly feel that even if the feature of "bar freeze" arrives, it would not sound smooth. Most likely it would sound "pieced". Not because of programming, but because of what Real Tracks are - audio... I do fear that they would sound abrupt as often happens with "change RT at the bar" option. But what I described, should take care of roughness.
Your suggestion seems more user friendly., but in essence bar freeze as you describe would create new tracks in the background and automate the process for the user... but will have significantly less control of what you are actually seeing and doing versus what I described above. Developers... feel free to cut me short if I am wrong.
As per topic, I do feel that expanding / rethinking mixer is the right way to go. If it is done right, a bar freeze as you (JJJ) described can be done much easier, by automating what is already in place - Creating multiple generations in background and visually displaying it as a single track of which parts can be frozen. Similar to "track folders" where you visually see it as a single track that contains several clips and has master control (volume, fx etc.) over the whole "folder".
Expanding mixer would also solve major requests such as dedicated 16 channels of MIDI and just adding, trying out / comparing various real tracks side by side without going through export/import to DAW.
I really like your idea but I worry that expanding the mixer is a complex task that they will attempt and then 3 years from now we will still be waiting for it to be finished. I guess the same risk exists for my bar-by-bar suggestion.
I have mostly changed my workflow to something like this,
- finish my song - save a copy of my song - in the copy replace all tracks with my solo RealTrack, generate and freeze - export tracks from main song to WAVs - export tracks from copy song to WAVs - bring all tracks into DAW and comp the solo tracks until I get what I want
Not intending to derail this thread, but reading your workflow JJJ, I agree that there needs to be a better way.
IMHO, you shouldn't need to go to an external DAW to get a Band 'IN A BOX' song to sound the way you want, and you shouldn't need to go to a DAW or have to bounce tracks to get Multi-Riff to work. These features should all be part of the program, not requiring externalization.
I don't think this got off track, and sorry if it did. Now, back to the program...
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
VideoTrack outlined the core of request pretty accurately: "These features should all be part of the program, not requiring externalization."
JJJ, this: "save a copy of my song" "in the copy replace all tracks with my solo RealTrack, generate and freeze"
This is 90% my workflow as well.
But thinking a bit "neutrally" on the issue, it is still boils down to number of available tracks that are needed, whether you see them (visually) as separate tracks or not. JJJ wants it automated and user friendly. And that is great (I support that too), but still we are talking about the number of available usable tracks to support these bar "freezes" or other RealTracks or Soloist tracks or Midi.
So my wish still stands. Open Mixer! How tracks are automated and how they can be hidden or un-hidden is a good candidate for another wishlist topic. Perhaps exactly how JJJ imagined:
"Just add a little arrow to each bar and when I click the arrow a small dropdown entitled Regen appears and it lets me click a track to regen. NOTHING else in the song changes."
or some sort of combination with this. But I still think that it can be accomplished by adding and automating tracks to actual mixer. Kind of solves two major requests.
By making selection on the "chord grid", it could capture the RT regions that are in these tracks and automate "bar mutes" of ends of these selected regions allowing for un-muted tracks for further regeneration or freezes.
My wish priority still is: more mixer tracks -> bar freeze. With more mixer tracks you can accomplish "bar freeze", with just "bar freeze" you can not get more usable mixer tracks...
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