|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 734
Journeyman
|
Journeyman
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 734 |
Quote: I had to swallow bitter pill after bitter pill because songwriters are, and always have been, the lowest rung on the music business ladder and consequently get stepped on the most. I've seen a lot of peers and friends make really bad business decisions that effected them for the rest of their lives. Perhaps I err too much on the side of "keeping what's yours", but it's because of how many repeated times I've seen songwriters duped in business dealings because it's our nature to consider what we do "art", when everyone else in the business views what we do as "commerce".
This. Roger is correct. The people who want to be in the music business who end up most successful, if successful means able to earn a living (to some that is not the definition, but I digress) are usually the people who are good at both the music and the business.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,902
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,902 |
When you hire a musician in a work for hire agreement, the only "right thing" is that you own the music and the musician got paid and doesn't own it.
Great, great example: Carol Kaye. Most in demand bass player in session history. She is responsible for more iconic bass lines in the pop songs of the 60's that I care to list here.
Take the time to watch the documentary film The Wrecking Crew. In it she describes how she would go to a session and they would have charts for her. She would think they were boring and would often create her own lines. Nancy Sinatra's These Boots are Made for Walking.... that's Carol's bass line. Sonny & Cher, The Beach Boys, the Temptations..... all among her clients and all have classic bass lines that she invented on the spot for them. She got a paycheck and that's the end of it. She probably didn't get any credit on the album other than Bass: C.Kaye.
You have no obligation to even mention them. If you want to, you can.
And when it comes to myself....If I hire someone, and I have, they don't get any credit or share of the income from the commercial use I make of the song. All the publisher or library want to know from me is that I own 100% of the master rights and have signed agreements with any one else on the music and can legally represent the music in full.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,251
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,251 |
Tangmo,
If you simply string together a chord progression and then try to rip off session musicians to put together a melody and claim it's your own, you are nothing more than a thief.
Either write a complete song and then hire session musicians to improvise around it or don't take other people's ideas and claim they're yours.
I can't believe this discussion has progressed to where it has without someone pointing that out for you. You know it's wrong or you wouldn't have asked the question.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 303
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 303 |
Here's a famous example that illustrates this thread's topic. The band released this song a couple of years before the next two recordings. Paul wrote the majority of this song (contrary to what most think). He comes up with quite the chord change sequence after "went into a dream". (It's the "ah" part.) Paul threw in some notes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Dh-I0_m5Y "A Day In The Life" Beatles Joe South wrote quite a good rocker based on that chord sequence, adding some notes here and there, and a good beat. He sings "nah, nah, nah, nah". (See how he added the "n" to change things up!) Joe South was a brilliant songwriter (IMO), one of my favs. Paul was a brilliant songwriter, one of my favs. In addition, he was one of the two most famous (and powerful) songwriters in the world at that time. "Hush" is credited solely to Joe South. If any songwriter could ever have claimed copyright infringement due to a chord sequence, that would have been the time and the claimant. Here's Joe South's superior original (IMO) of "Hush" and the biggest cover hit by Deep Purple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M9se64HoTg "Hush" Joe South https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1PNvopXjbg "Hush" Deep Purple
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381 |
If anybody is interested, here's the "request" I made at Fiverr.
I'm looking for a flutist (or other wind instrument) familiar with, and competent in, the Byzantine scale for an approximately three minute piece harmonized to that scale in a hard-rock/metal setting. The piece is designed to show off the possibilities of the Byzantine scale, but I don't want endless scale runs. I'd like a coherent, melodic lead-line that uses only notes found in the scale and based off of chord tones. The enclosed sample is a rendering of the body of the piece. An intro may be added later if there is any interest at Fiverr. I'm not in a hurry and don't mind if you aren't either, if you understand the project.
Do I need to explain on a forum heavily populated with musicians the difference between a "melody" and a "melodic lead line"?
Last edited by Tangmo; 05/30/20 04:13 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381 |
Tangmo,
If you simply string together a chord progression and then try to rip off session musicians to put together a melody and claim it's your own, you are nothing more than a thief.
Either write a complete song and then hire session musicians to improvise around it or don't take other people's ideas and claim they're yours.
I can't believe this discussion has progressed to where it has without someone pointing that out for you. You know it's wrong or you wouldn't have asked the question. I'll admit the first time I read that, I was pretty steamed. But I calmed down and thought about a little while. I thought to myself, 'Surely Bob could not have actually read my posts in this thread and come to the conclusion that I was intending to do any such thing. Indeed, it should have been obvious that I was trying to find out how to do the exact opposite of that. Therefor, logically, he must have some other reason for making a post that strongly appears to be an attempt to accuse, judge, and re-educate me.' ************************* I'm not an "OK, man...whatever" kinda hippy. I'm a sharp-tongued, clear-eyed, kick-[*****] kinda hippy. Being decent IS good business. I want to do the "right" thing so I can sleep at night. The facts are: IF my guy composes (even on the fly) an actual melody for this piece, HE is the one who should copyright it, and I (Tangmo) am the one who should be asking for a share. I could register all day, but I cannot claim ownership on anything but the MASTER--the recording. It would be the melody HE WROTE that even IS copyright-able. And if, all alone, it sounds like a melody (and maybe even if it doesn't) I'm going to tell HIM that. It doesn't matter what the law "allows". If it allows me to pay for a melody and claim credit...it also allows me to do differently. I am not properly set up to do either. It doesn't matter if he wrote a melody as a work-for-hire. In my position, I can tell the law to suck it. If you want to help me do that with links that discuss the current realities, so I can turn a hobby into an avocation, feel free. Google has not been helpful. Everything so far is either snippets attached to a service being sold, or so old that it mentions CDBaby still acting as a CD Wharehouse. I don't expect I'll find any info that suggests I do what I want...I'll settle for info that gives me the ammo necessary to do what I want.
Last edited by Tangmo; 05/30/20 06:24 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,902
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,902 |
Tangmo.... your very next post puts you over 1000 posts.... nice milestone to hit.
Secondly.... do what you want with regard to credits on any album liners or whatever. Unless it's on an album, there's generally no place to give credit anyway.
Simply list the studio musicians on each song. Many of the albums I have did that. Guests that were not in the band would set in and play and they were given credit for their work. I have no clue what kind of agreement they signed but I can guarantee you this... they did sign an agreement and they stuck to the terms in it as far as ownership and pay.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253 |
Generally speaking, if a musician is paid a fee to play on a recording, it is a tacit waiving of ownership of a part of the song. It's double dipping otherwise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,251
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,251 |
Tangmo,
I gave the whole thread a quick read through and I posted my thoughts about it. If you're looking for a debate then just keep on looking because I'm not interested in participating.
My initial response is the same as it is now. The impression I got is that you came up with a chord progression and wanted other people to play over it so you could take their ideas and flesh out a melody.
I couldn't possibly care less about what you do. Don't post things if you want to take issue with other people's responses when it's not what you want to hear.
Take care.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
Holiday Weekend Hours
It's Victoria Day Long Weekend in Canada. Our Customer Service hours are:
Saturday, May 16: Closed
Sunday, May 17: Closed
Monday, May 18: 8:00am - 4:00pm
Regular hours resume Tuesday, May 19th!
Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!
Order before 11:59pm PDT today (May 15, 2026) to save up to 50% off your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrade and receive a FREE Bonus PAK loaded with great new Add-ons to use with this new version!
Don't wait - order today!
Check out all the new features in the redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,322
Posts803,365
Members40,096
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There are no members with birthdays on this day. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean