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I'm a beginner songwriter and have just finished my first (ever) song. I got a lot to learn so any thoughts would be really appreciated.
Love, Rinse, Repeat
©2020 JohnMAFS
Verse 1
Is it sad
She holds her hand
Closes her eyes
And pretends it’s a mans
And is it bad
Her life’s so bland
Without the touch
Of a womaniser
People say, “girl don’t you cry
Find another, and you’ll be just fine”
Surprise, surprise
Her hearts’ out to dry
And she’s back on the horse
For another ride
I’ve seen it all before,
She goes slammin’ doors
And then opens ones
That are barely ajar
Chorus
Come on girl, can’t you see?
Love to you’s just rinse and repeat
You’re so locked up
If you want to be freed
Stop playin’ these games of love, rinse, repeat
Verse 2
It’s so sad
When one love ends
She can barely stand
‘Til a new one begins
And it’s so bad
After all these tears
She’s forgotten the boys
From the early years
She treats love like a fool
A game of filling shoes
Yet she asks “why oh why
Is my life so cruel?”
Chorus
Come on girl, can’t you see?
Love to you’s just rinse and repeat
You’re so locked up
If you want to be freed
Stop playin’ these games of love, rinse, repeat
You’re so locked up
If you want to be freed
Stop playin’ these games of love, rinse, repeat
Stop playin’ these games of love, rinse, repeat
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 302
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Hi John!
Congrats to you for completing a song! (I'm amazed you had the moxie to post it; that's very unusual for a first attempt, and makes a (positive) statement about your character.
Also, I think you were smart to announce your ownership of the song (copyright). Do that for every song you put out there.
This is an exceptionally friendly set of forums. BiaB tends to attract people that are interested in creating, not just playing.
So I have a few thoughts. Number 1 is the most important.
1. Keep writing. Like anything else, the more you do it, the better you will get.
2. Did you notice that there is a "Songwriting" forum here? That's where your post belongs, and it's a good place to pick up tips. I'd also recommend that you read (and listen) to the "User Showcase" forum. There are some very smart people who post in those two forums, and they're people who are dealing with exactly the same issues you are (or will be).
*** I'm lyrically challenged! So take my comments with a grain of salt. ***
(I'm assuming you've created music to go with your lyrics. My "clue" was the repetition at the end of your 2nd chorus.)
3. Just reading, I think there are problems with structure. Big advice: Use BiaB!!!
BiaB forces you (at least it has for me) to "clean things up", and be more structured.
Here's an example:
Your first verse has 4 lines, 4 lines, 6 lines, then 4 lines.
But your second verse has 4 lines, 4 lines, then 4 lines. (The structure of your second verse is more common.)
The possible issue is that the structure of the first verse doesn't match the structure of the second verse.
4. Another issue is accents. They are "slaved" to the music, but normally you'd like your accents to line up.
Here's an example:
In verse 1, 1st block: "Closes her eyes" If you say that, the accents are on "Clo" and "eyes".
In verse 1, 2nd block: "Without the touch" If you say that, the accents are on "out" and "touch".
So, 1st block syllable 1 and syllable 4. Second block, syllable 2 and syllable 4.
Normally, the accents should be in the same places.
5. You have a very unusual rhyme scheme. (Irregular.) Normally, at least when you're starting out, try to rhyme line 2 and line 4 in a 4 block.
For example:
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Sugar is sweet
and rhymes can be too
Most songs that people remember have cues that make them memorable. Having a simple structure helps. Having a simple (and common) rhyme scheme helps. Having the lyric accents hit on a good beat helps.
Mostly, I don't think any of this is crucial, if you've got a great tune.
(I like tunes.)
I hope something here helps you John. (See (1) and (2), and use BiaB!!!)
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Le Miz, I'm in no way a lyricist, but your reply to the O/P is absolutely outstanding.
Thank you for sharing such in depth knowledge and detailed recommendations, and for going to such detail to explain.
This has to be seen as extremely helpful to a person reaching out for assistance.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Welcome! You might consider posting it in the songwriting forum rather than this "off topic" forum. You would likely get more responses there. Just click on General Discussion and you will see that forum in addition to this one and others.
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Le Miz gave good advice. Here's what I can add, I think. Even if lines and rhymes etc are "irregular", if you have a way to sing this, then it will work. For me, right now, it isn't yet a song-lyric. Don't take that the wrong way or as an insult. It's just that without musical context it's words on a computer screen. Axiomatically, it isn't a "song" until it's sung. Hopefully, at least in your own head/ear/imagination you can sing this. That you have some sense of the melody and it's two main components...the rise and fall of pitch singing notes and the "placement" of those notes in time--rhythm/cadence/phrasing. And that these musical ideas are connected and repeated in some coherent fashion. If YOU can do that (even if it's all internal now) then it IS a song lyric for you. And if you can do THAT, then the most important parts of lyric writing are taken care of, imo. When I'm writing a song, THAT'S when I begin to get excited. I'll make a couple of comments on the words on the screen. 1. I don't know what "And then opens ones That are barely ajar" means. 'Ajar' is something of a synonym to 'open'...not precisely, as I think it more usually refers to something that is 'open' which is normally (or ought to be) closed...at least that's what the computer voice in my dad's car seems to be saying.  So "barely ajar" confuses me. 2. "Come on girl, can’t you see". This is personal and nit-picky, but that "can't you see" line is way overused, imo. It often comes up like a cheap way to rhyme and fill syllables rather than having any punch. That's just my opinion and the way I usually hear it. But, of course, I'm right. 3. You seem to change your POV with that line too. You begin talking "about" her, then change to talking "to" her. At least that's the way it 'reads'. It might be best to pick one POV or the other. And if you're asking, I'd be tempted to address the whole song "to" her. That last one is just good advice for writing in general--especially fiction. Know who YOU (the singer) are in the song. Know who "the listener" (not to be completely confused with "the audience") is in this short piece of fiction. When those two "characters" are established, everything else is easier. There's a lot to like in this. I like your title line. Assuming it hasn't been used many times in your genre, it's catchy. I like the theme a lot. Great subject. I hope at least some of this has been helpful...but especially the part without numbers.
Last edited by Tangmo; 06/10/20 11:42 AM.
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Yep....I agree with everything already said.
Use the songwriter's forum for stuff like this.
Here's just a few thoughts off the top of my head and what I think about a lot when I'm writing.
Write, write, write and then write some more. Study the masters. Who are the masters? They are generally the folks who are writing the songs that you hear on the radio. Study the craft and art of songwriting. Books, courses, seminars, also local songwriting associations.
I have a co-writer who I write with on occasion and she can be a real task master. No cliche lines because that's some worn out stuff.... be sure the verses line up with the same patterns, don't repeat words, watch your rhymes, and so much more. Take a given subject and write about it from a totally new and fresh perspective. Yeah, it's not easy to do but songwriting isn't easy work. That's what makes it so challenging and enjoyable when you do hit those magic combination of words and notes.
You will find too that cowriting and collaborating is a really good way to improve your writing skills quickly. Nothing like a second POV on the topic.
Always try to make sure you write like you speak. Proper order of verbs and such things. Don't write like Yoda speaks. Cute it's not. Always, or mostly, try to write where people listening will be able to understand exactly what's going on in the lyric.
That aside..... yeah, now put some music to that and let's hear what you got. If you're just getting started, learn the rules and follow them. Once you get more experience and your writing has gotten to a higher level.... throw out the rules and write. Some would argue to do that to start, well, unless you are Dylan or Harland Howard..... best to start on firm ground. And when you look at those 2 writers I mentioned, you find that they mostly did follow the rules.
Enough pontification from me.... go and write and compose some music and post it in the Showcase so we can listen and comment.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Do I smell spam? So much good advice for a new member on Post #1. I hope the OP proves me wrong.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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Journeyman
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Thank you so much VideoTrack for your very kind words! Also thank you Tangmo! Your comments made me feel good. I'm not a good poster, and I know it. (About 250 posts in 20 years!) I do read most every day, and did a couple of years before I joined the forums. Do I smell spam? So much good advice for a new member on Post #1. I hope the OP proves me wrong. MusicStudent, you were not the only one. I actually considered the possibility of spam before replying. I decided to post anyway. If the poster is a beginning songwriter, I wanted to post an affirmation (I believe all songwriters need that), adding a couple of basic pointers that I wish I had started with decades ago. If it was spam, my thought was that maybe those pointers would help other readers. Historically, the Off-Topic forum has gotten much traffic. (As I post this, the thread has 83 views; for me, only 1 has to be a beginning songwriter.) Also I hoped others might offer good advice. (That happened!!!) Plus, PG Music has (and has had) really friendly forums. On balance, I decided to go for it.
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Do I smell spam? So much good advice for a new member on Post #1. I hope the OP proves me wrong. You are probably right as MAFS is Married At First Site!
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Something else caught my attention. The lyrics just seemed to work to hard at avoiding any strong rhymes. There were only two examples in all the phrases where words were strong rhymes. Le Miz caught it with " You have a very unusual rhyme scheme. (Irregular.) " Even words which should have rhymed did not.. e.g., She holds her hand
Closes her eyes
And pretends it’s a mans Hand s and Mans would have been better. OK, no biggie there are many other forms of rhyming other than strong (I took Pat's course), but this, combined with Post #1, just seems to be a setup. Having said that, all the info provided was good and the intentions were admirable. And Like I said, the OP is welcome back at any time.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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Le Miz, thank you so much for such detailed feedback. I really appreciate it, and being such a beginner I will definitely take all of that on board! In future I'll post on the Songwriting forum!! Thanks again
Last edited by JohnMAFS; 06/10/20 05:18 PM.
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Do I smell spam? So much good advice for a new member on Post #1. I hope the OP proves me wrong. Hello! No this is not spam haha I apologise for posting on the wrong forum, I'm a bit of a newbie. But yes you are right I am lucky to have been given such great advice
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Welcome to the forum. 
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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Yes, welcome also. You will identify that we are a pretty good bunch of people, and genuinely welcome the same. Every so often there might be an issue, and we only want to keep everything going smoothly, without issue. No harm intended from anyone. Here, we all work on the same team. Welcome, again.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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