Ok... I admit probably a bit challenging. I just thought it was interesting concept.
Imagine this workflow. Select a few bars somewhere in the middle of arrangement and drag them directly to DAW, so they fall in the right spot in timeline as individual tracks (centered and dry), but just those bars that were selected, nothing else. Sort of building block concept.
If you are still reading, here is another thought. If "bar freeze" comes to BIAB, would be useful if it can be saved as a "block" with possibility to re-shuffle these blocks around in same arrangement without losing "generation" with which they got frozen.... and ability to drag just these "blocks" to DAW so they fall as individual tracks.
Or even go further and save these blocks as a file, with .fbb extension (frozen bar block), so it can be used in other arrangements as a whole block.
Probably too much "requests". I just thought of putting it down before I forget
Recently Cakewalk introduced a variant of arranger track. I have not played with it yet, but if I understood Cakewalk's feature correctly, this "drag bar"concept could be a good candidate for it.
I think I understand the concept. One thing to keep in mind is that my understanding is that RealTracks are musical phrases played over several bars (2, 4, etc), maybe more, maybe less. So if a RealTrack phrase is 8 bars long, and you only want to keep bars 3 & 4, it's probably not going to be possible to 'bar freeze' just those bars.
Yes, saving as a 'block' which is made up of multiple bars could work.
However, I am only speculating on the operation here. I have no absolute knowledge of the internal methods used by the program.
Regardless, the concept is not without merit.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Videotrack, yes, I think that this is the main challenge, to have "bar freeze" in general, so they (freezes) transition smoothly into other parts of arrangement. But probably consecutive sections of composition can be done as frozen blocks, with "tails"...
I think I understand the concept. One thing to keep in mind is that my understanding is that RealTracks are musical phrases played over several bars (2, 4, etc), maybe more, maybe less. So if a RealTrack phrase is 8 bars long, and you only want to keep bars 3 & 4, it's probably not going to be possible to 'bar freeze' just those bars.
Yes, saving as a 'block' which is made up of multiple bars could work.
However, I am only speculating on the operation here. I have no absolute knowledge of the internal methods used by the program.
Regardless, the concept is not without merit.
Only speculation here also but if any measure could be cut/sliced at the zero point in the audio wav the it would work. Many DAWs can do this.
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Are you familiar with a Band-in-a-Box feature called "Song Form"? Song Form lets you define bars into blocks and then arrange the song by moving, copying or even deleting blocks.
While it won't help move blocks between Band-in-a-Box and a DAW it may help get the tracks set up like you want so you can quickly export arrangements.
Imagine this workflow. Select a few bars somewhere in the middle of arrangement and drag them directly to DAW, so they fall in the right spot in timeline as individual tracks (centered and dry), but just those bars that were selected, nothing else. Sort of building block concept.
You could even have another instance of Biab with different instruments and drag the same section under the other tracks in the DAW. You could select an extra bar at the start/end this will give some adjust in the DAW to merge better. In Reaper you can have the chord regions with different colors. Reaper has a region player that will play any selected region in any order you like. You can render the regions selected. Reaper Extensions > Region Playlist
I suggested some time back to have these options in the Audio > Export Song As Audio File.. they would be helpful in the + DROP option.
Reaper will import the region chords from the BiabPlugin or musicxml or BB Chord Output Midi or Midi Markers. The regions can be copied or moved and added to any order in the region playlist to quickly preview any arrangement with smooth transitions during playback.
Selecting a few bars somewhere in the middle of arrangement and sending them to a DAW requires nothing more than exporting WAV audio. Can you explain what the issue you're having so I can better understand your wish? If it's exporting small section or exporting audio, BIAB can do both of those tasks. There's also already a procedure to create smooth transitions.
Because BIAB operates as a virtual studio, there's no sound, midi or RealTracks audio until you render, generate or export it from a virtual track. These virtual instruments don't exist in any physical sense. On a BIAB channel, they are simply a set of instructions stored on the computer until each time you hit Play. Each time Play is hit, the instructions are executed with any changes, additions, mutes, fades, gain changes, unmute, panning, volume and effects. This is all digital with no effect or degradation to any audio that's ultimately rendered.
Pipeline, yes in theory what you showed works. I am on Cakewalk, but process is similar. There are numerous issues with that approach. The biggest one is that sections are simply chopped off, they will not fall smoothly into the project because they lack, what Mario above mentioned, -"zero point" cut and also any tails it might have. So at the end you still end up doing a lot of tedious work on the clips. There is more time wasted importing sections through DAW plugin and polishing ends compared to exporting complete song WAVs (with tails, etc.) and importing them to DAW
---- Charlie, Most things I mentioned above. Other aspect, which I feel is our ongoing conversation is ergonomics / design, the A->B path So to make my point more clear, I suggest you download Chordpulse trial and see if you can figure it out in 5 minutes. I did. It is a tiny arranger program that came out 10 years ago. This is not to compare it with BIAB, but to clarify what I mean by good design, ergonomics, pleasant appearance, doing complex things - the easy way (for example moving entire blocks around)! I believe Jim. F. likes that program too So to relate to initial request and directly answer your question. Yes, what I "wish" for is doable "as is", but not intuitively, not ergonomically and will take more time and many more steps in making arrangement than the workflow I am after. When trying to give a fresh look at BIAB features that relate to this approach, I stumble on the same rakes as I did initially when I explored them first time. In my view they are not complete and not streamlined with process of assembling/arranging basic blocks.
I understand, that initial request is probably a bit vague and most importantly, features that are in place would have to be significantly modified in order to achieve this. However going back to same mantra, I feel that the only true and clear workaround is opening more mixer channels. So you keep all your BIAB tracks, bits and pieces in one place and in one BIAB project, changeable within that project.
"...sections are simply chopped off, they will not fall smoothly into the project because they lack, what Mario above mentioned, -"zero point" cut and also any tails it might have."
and
"... saving and moving 'Blocks'
with
"I feel that the only true and clear workaround is opening more mixer channels."
RealBand is the immediate, intuitive, ergonomic and logical answer here. I can assure you with unquestionable certainty that adding more mixer channels to the BIAB Mixer will not solve your workflow issue. Regeneration, frozen tracks, more mixer tracks, comping tracks, moving block sections, audio editing, all these features currently exist in BIAB "as is". As you acknowledge, in their current state, they are not intuitive or ergonomic and would have to be significantly modified to achieve being more intuitive and ergonomic and which would essentially turn BIAB into RealBand.
Charlie, " I can assure you with unquestionable certainty that adding more mixer channels to the BIAB Mixer will not solve your workflow issue."
I assure you 100%, it will!! - 16 Minimum, for RT's or MIDI, as most of arrangers had/have.
As I mentioned in other post in our conversation, I will try it again with slightly different wording. I wish not to learn the software which I feel does not have a solid future. There are fantastic free and very inexpensive DAWs that will outbeat RB in 90% of features and workflow. Why re-invent the wheel? As one member noted earlier, RB should be kept as Legacy software...running., and all the resources freed should be put behind products that could and should be improved and developed further. I am 100% behind that.
Also..Wish is a wish. It is not a cry for a workaround
Matt, "I would be ok with essentially turning BIAB into RealBand." +1
I too suggested that once but was met with shield and sword. Yes, essentially I would love to have "some" features of RB in BIAB which are missing, losing the rest 80%., but I guess before that could be done, BIAB has to be "ready" for such changes.
FWIW I think the emphasis should be on the VST. Adding features from BiaB and RB to the VST would be extremely valuable. That and improve the workflow and GUI would make it an universal product, i.e. both MAC and PC. It could make BiaB and RB obsolete. YMMV
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Mario, I think there should be a standalone program and a VST. (NI, Halion etc.) I am not a programmer, and most certainly do not know if there is a plan of VST plugin to be worked out as a full featured standalone... Lets assume it is (or isn't), same story remains... of 16 or more available channels for RT or MIDI
Mario, I think there should be a standalone program and a VST. (NI, Halion etc.) I am not a programmer, and most certainly do not know if there is a plan of VST plugin to be worked out as a full featured standalone... Lets assume it is (or isn't), same story remains... of 16 or more available channels for RT or MIDI
As I have stated many times over many years that I want all 16 channels opened up to the user so yes I am in your camp.
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I don't want to knock ANY ideas, I suggest ways it could be done or find a workaround until it's done (or not) but all these things are why the BiabPlugin was made. It would help if you could suggest features in the BiabPlugin forum that's you thinks needed or if you need the complexities of Biab then maybe a VST to sync Biab as a slave to your DAW. There was talk for yearssss about a new reprogrammed 64bit RealBand that works like Biab generating to RAM with more tracks. That never came around so ReaTrak was made to integrate Biab (and now the Plugin) with Reaper as the scripting allows you to add features "today" without going to the wishing well year after year.
Here's another example of what can be done with the Plugin/s. If the Plugin had an option to start play when the DAW reached bar 256, so after it plays bar 255 in the first instance it will start play of bar 1 in the second instance with the rest of the song (that has this option checked). You could even add 255 to the bar numbers in instance 2 giving you the actual same bar numbers as the DAW.
Here is an example video with 2 Plugins, when the first on the left gets to bar 256 (17) then the second plugin starts on bar 256 (17) and continues to play seamlessly.
Pipeline, why is that you are not working next door to Adar?...in mask...
Ok, plugin is another beast. Per your recommendation, I tried it. Fun toy, and very well might have uses for some folks. But being so stripped, has no use to me at this time. I am afraid I will sound too negative if I start expressing my opinions about it The bottom line, I do see appeal and usefulness in it for some (if not half of future) users so I will keep it to myself for now.
My preferred way of doing things is sequential. Idea->BIAB->DAW->synths, instruments,vocals->Mix. Not jumping from place to place if absolutely not needed. I guess, unless some huge steps are taken in plugin development I will stick to BIAB. I do wish BIAB would get modernized and cleaned a little + biggest request of more mixer tracks so whole BIAB arrangement can stay in single BIAB project until ready for export to DAW.
P.S. Hey, I really do not want to sound like a cry baby. I can totally get away with how I do things, just sharing my feedback / wishes.
Pipeline, why is that you are not working next door to Adar?...in mask...
Ok, plugin is another beast. Per your recommendation, I tried it. Fun toy, and very well might have uses for some folks. But being so stripped, has no use to me at this time. I am afraid I will sound too negative if I start expressing my opinions about it The bottom line, I do see appeal and usefulness in it for some (if not half of future) users so I will keep it to myself for now.
I agree. The only thing I use the vst for is to copy the chords over to my DAW.
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
My preferred way of doing things is sequential. Idea->BIAB->DAW->synths, instruments,vocals->Mix. Not jumping from place to place if absolutely not needed. I guess, unless some huge steps are taken in plugin development I will stick to BIAB. I do wish BIAB would get modernized and cleaned a little + biggest request of more mixer tracks so whole BIAB arrangement can stay in single BIAB project until ready for export to DAW.
P.S. Hey, I really do not want to sound like a cry baby. I can totally get away with how I do things, just sharing my feedback / wishes.
My work flow is identical to yours.
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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