Well, that doesn't really answer my question. I wanted to find out how Bob does the MIDI edit, not the number of ways I could do it. I'm curious as to how someone who seems to live in the MIDI world, i.e. doesn't use RTs, edits MIDI cleanly and quickly. I could certainly export the MIDI file to Finale, delete the notes that I don't want, and then export the corrected file to a .mid file, but that would clearly be a major clusterfuck. I'm wondering what the most optimal way would be. As you say, maybe RB is the way to do it.
However, I'm not sure what the point is. Once I've edited the MIDI file, what next? Import it back to BIAB or Real Band? Maybe freeze that track that I edited so that it doesn't get regenerated? It sounds like a lot of work to get around the fact that BIAB interprets "D5" incorrectly.
I am a bit confused. The chart you show with the root-fifth's are all real tracks. That means there is no midi involved here, so nothing to edit. Strictly audio based on what the artist recorded. Apparently, the band did not play any power chords. So ya, you need a different real track set. This is where we usually point to the Wish List, but I don't think that or user tracks are going to satisfy you. Sorry.
Yes, using your style and chords, BIAB plays big time major thirds on those 5 chords.
But I wonder if the presence of the minor chord encourages BIAB to resolve it, to differentiate between the minor and the power chord. I’m not suggestion this is the right thing to do, just wondering.
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Except that you're defending something that isn't under attack. The power chord isn't a chord, it subs for a chord. A chord is taken from the tonality of the tune. A power chord needs something else to clarify the tonality. If I play CMaj-->Am-->D5-->GMaj, we have no idea if the D5 represents the Dm chord or the D7 chord(the two likeliest suspects). If the soloist is interpreting this as D7, he may use an F# note over the chord. However, if someone else decides to play a background harmony over the chord, but interprets it as Dm, the diatonic chord from the key, then there is going to be a clash. I like The Clash, but even they weren't stupid enough to mix Major and Minor tonalities with no rhyme or reason.
No amount of distortion is going to fix that issue.
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Well, that doesn't really answer my question. I wanted to find out how Bob does the MIDI edit, not the number of ways I could do it. I'm curious as to how someone who seems to live in the MIDI world, i.e. doesn't use RTs, edits MIDI cleanly and quickly. I could certainly export the MIDI file to Finale, delete the notes that I don't want, and then export the corrected file to a .mid file, but that would clearly be a major clusterfuck. I'm wondering what the most optimal way would be. As you say, maybe RB is the way to do it.
However, I'm not sure what the point is. Once I've edited the MIDI file, what next? Import it back to BIAB or Real Band? Maybe freeze that track that I edited so that it doesn't get regenerated? It sounds like a lot of work to get around the fact that BIAB interprets "D5" incorrectly.
I am a bit confused. The chart you show with the root-fifth's are all real tracks. That means there is no midi involved here, so nothing to edit. Strictly audio based on what the artist recorded. Apparently, the band did not play any power chords. So ya, you need a different real track set. This is where we usually point to the Wish List, but I don't think that or user tracks are going to satisfy you. Sorry.
Well, then that's a glaring omission then, isn't it? Why would BIAB assign a Real Track that is clearly playing DMaj when the chord cited should be D5? I just picked a style(a number of them, actually) that is supposed to refer to the song that I am inputting. Fire On The Bayou is quite clearly not in a Major key, and although I've specified the key of Dm, it interprets the D5 as Major(?).
Someone screwed the pooch on this one.
However, I can't record my own User Track for playing root-5 diads over D5? So, there is no possible way to create a BIAB track for this one particular song without the completely wrong chords? Seems like a pretty big shortcoming. Type a chord in and the software plays a different chord. Anyone picture a problem with this?
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Why would BIAB assign a Real Track that is clearly playing DMaj when the chord cited should be D5?
The answer is because the real tracks, that YOU selected, does not have a D5 recorded, so the program substitutes with what it has.
No arguments here, BIAB is not perfect. No one is defending anything here. We are just trying to understand what you are describing and hoping to suggest a workaround. This is not the first time users have encountered this type of issue. You say you have tried multiple different RTs. No one is playing an D5? In that case, BIAB is possible not the tool of choice for this arrangement. Or you have to go to you DAW and really do some surgical editing. The third can be removed from an audio track with tools like Melodyn.
We also should likely get to this PGM to see if they happen to have some powerchord recordings which were omitted or can be added to these styles.
Just tying to provide thoughts on the matter. Oh and by the way that Jazz Chords comment was just my sense of humor! Not trying to deflect from the issue here.
I looked closer at your chosen style. The notations for your chosen style using powerchords appears to show the guitarist gets it right (so he does know how to play a root/fifth, but the piano player has other things on his mind.
Can you fire (mute) the piano player (or limit his use) and have the guitarist take lead?
I looked closer at your chosen style. The notations for your chosen style using powerchords appears to show the guitarist gets it right (so he does know how to play a root/fifth, but the piano player has other things on his mind.
Can you fire (mute) the piano player (or limit his use) and have the guitarist take lead?
When I run the track, the major 3rds are clearly in both the guitar and organ parts.
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When I run the track, the major 3rds are clearly in both the guitar and organ parts.
If so, than the guitar notation is incorrect, or there is a re-generation (hit and miss) which will yield the proper chords. Have you tried multiriffs to hear all the different generations.
Ya, I know it should not be this much work, but this can be one complex program. More reason now to send this to PGM to point out the discrepancies - there maybe an easy fix for them which can be applied in the next patch.
I used to complain about the lack of consistency with "power whatever you want to call its", especially in the MIDI realm, but never got satisfactory results. If BIAB used C5 to indicate such a a construct, then why does the MIDI engine still often play the 3rd (and my experience is that it's always the major, not minor, 3rd). So what is a C5 chord then? Apparently just another name for a C chord. I stopped complaining after several yearly version releases with no resolution.
I have a lot of songs that show the chord as,for example, C(no3). I don't understand why this isn't fully supported,especially in MIDI, where the processing engine clearly generates all the notes for the chord and should know which note is the 3rd of a chord. The engine certainly knows how to add and flat 9ths, or change the 5th to sharp (Caug). 3rds seem to be a problem, in that a sus2 (different from add9, but which BIAB calls a C2 chord), isn't properly supported either, because in a sus chord the 4 (for sus or sus4) or 2 (for sus2) replaces the 3rd.
Granted, I haven't looked closely at this in awhile, but the comments on this thread seem to indicate that it behaves the same way it used to and what I previously experienced.
John
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I'm not specifically a user of these chords but I guess if the program indicates that it can deliver certain functionality, well, that ought to be available, surely.
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I've often noticed that when entering "Power chords" that BiaB will play the 3rd. BTW, I hate the term "power chords". Two notes (like root and fifth) is by definition an interval, not a chord. It takes 3 notes to play a chord.
I'm glad you raised that Notes. I also don't feel incredibly comfortable with the term "Power chords", and agree on the minimum number of notes required to start to establish a chord structure. Two usually isn't adequate.
You old guys are such purists . You have to check Wiki on this one. The power chord has a lot more sound than an simple interval:
Quote:
in a power chord, the ratio between the frequencies of the root and fifth are very close to the just interval 3:2. When played through distortion, the intermodulation leads to the production of partials closely related in frequency to the harmonics of the original two notes, producing a more coherent sound. The intermodulation makes the spectrum of the sound expand in both directions, and with enough distortion, a new fundamental frequency component appears an octave lower than the root note of the chord played without distortion, giving a richer, more bassy and more subjectively 'powerful' sound than the undistorted signal.[4] Even when played without distortion, the simple ratios between the harmonics in the notes of a power chord can give a stark and powerful sound, owing to the resultant tone (combination tone) effect.
But you knew that. Said with a big smile guys!
Every interval has it's unique sound due to the mixing of harmonics. But it still doesn't make it a chord. One note is a note, two notes played at the same time is an interval, and three or more notes played at the same time is a chord.
Power chords are root/fifth intervals.
But people call that particular interval a power chord. I never could figure out why. I guess it was started by people who didn't learn music theory.
If you call a root/fifth interval a chord, then all double stops are also chords, and that corrupts the definitions of both an interval and a chord.
But I go ahead and call them power chords because as much as I don't like it, it's what people understand.
I don't use the real tracks very often. Not that I don't like them, I think there is a lot of genius, and I think they sound good but they aren't very editable, and I like to play with the music, taking what I consider the very good output of BiaB and personalize it to make it what I hope raises it from very good to excellent.
I do this by exporting to a MIDI file, opening it in Master Tracks Pro, Power Tracks Pro or Cakewalk and editing. It might be tine consuming, but the time goes by pleasantly and when I'm done, if the song sounds a lot better, I get a feeling of accomplishment. Also if I'm lucky I'll get to hear the finished product thousands of times.
I've noticed BiaB ignoring the C5 notation, which is supposed to be the root/fifth interval (aka power chord) and including the third to make it a C major. Sometimes this makes little difference, but if it does, I'll edit it.
I write a lot of styles. If I write a part with only 2 notes (interval) and then want that same part to play a chord, it won't. So which is worse?
For me it's easier to edit out the third than to try to insert one where I need an actual chord.
BiaB is a fantastic program, but like all programs, it does have limitations. Sometimes it takes a bit of work or creative thinking to overcome the limitations, but for all the other wonderful things it does and the time it saves me, it's well worth the time.
With all due respect, this tread is drifting off topic. Most of the time I am to blame, but not this time.
The OP's issue is with RTs not playing the D5 (or any powerchord). While this may be also seen in midi tracks, that is not the issue here.
It appears that for the funk RTs the chording instruments do not have a recorded D5. That may be understandable if BIAB did not claim to support D5, but it does. Also the annotation added to the guitar track clearly showed it was sticking to a root-fifth-root chord, but Matt and the OP reported hearing the major third.
Let me try to take this directly over to the beta forum where we may get a response from the PGM team.
Hi to my mind Power chords are used by guitar players in the main, and as said above often contain the root the 5th and the octave of the root. As they contain no 3rd they are neither major or minor so fit over a large range of melody notes.
THE ONE SHAPE FOR ALL POWER CHORD
The power chord is the same shape for any chord up and down the neck. It takes it name from the note on the 6th string (thick) this is its Root It only has 3 notes on the bottom 3 string they are The root on 6th string. The 5th on the 5th string . The octave on the 4th string. The top 3 high strings should be soft muted by the first finger that is playing the Root .
hi Dan I suspect that many just play the root and the 5th but not, the octave. Which is why folks want to call it a a 2 note interval. just my thoughts.
hi Dan I suspect that many just play the root and the 5th but not, the octave. Which is why folks want to call it a a 2 note interval. just my thoughts.
If he plays the root, fifth, and an octave higher root it still is a 2 note interval as there are only two notes, the root and fifth.
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I don't use the real tracks very often. Not that I don't like them, I think there is a lot of genius, and I think they sound good but they aren't very editable, and I like to play with the music, taking what I consider the very good output of BiaB and personalize it to make it what I hope raises it from very good to excellent.
I do this by exporting to a MIDI file, opening it in Master Tracks Pro, Power Tracks Pro or Cakewalk and editing. It might be tine consuming, but the time goes by pleasantly and when I'm done, if the song sounds a lot better, I get a feeling of accomplishment. Also if I'm lucky I'll get to hear the finished product thousands of times.
Hi, Bob. Dan is right, we've gotten way off topic here, as my initial issue is clearly with Real Tracks rather than with MIDI. However, I am quite interested in how one makes MIDI tracks sound realistically like real instruments. Clearly you have a good sense of envelopes, dynamics, what to do with note-off commands, etc., for different instrument sounds. So you export the MIDI file as generated by BIAB, and use your algorithms to make the MIDI notes perform like a real player. What now, though? The only place you can import these edited MIDI files back into BIAB is the Melody track or the Soloist track, correct?
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
I've noticed BiaB ignoring the C5 notation, which is supposed to be the root/fifth interval (aka power chord) and including the third to make it a C major. Sometimes this makes little difference, but if it does, I'll edit it.
I write a lot of styles. If I write a part with only 2 notes (interval) and then want that same part to play a chord, it won't. So which is worse?
For me it's easier to edit out the third than to try to insert one where I need an actual chord.
Again, if you edit out the third of the chord in a MIDI editor, how do you import the MIDI file back into guitar part of the generated BIAB part? Am I correct to assume that one has to then freeze the track so that BIAB doesn't regenerate it and the problem starts all over?
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
BiaB is a fantastic program, but like all programs, it does have limitations. Sometimes it takes a bit of work or creative thinking to overcome the limitations, but for all the other wonderful things it does and the time it saves me, it's well worth the time.
I've done with in sequencing bands before, and even done some sequencing. Usually the way to make the sequences sound more like real players had to do more with pushing the notes a little ahead or behind the best to make the phrasing more human, applying staccatos in creative places, alternating note ending times so that horn sections sounded more like separate players, etc. I almost had to spend as much time adding sloppiness to the parts than the time spent getting the right notes in.
However, when I hear sounds like Indiginus Blue Steel horn sounds, where they have effects to applied to the notes specifically to reproduce the sounds that a player may make, I wonder how those note could be edited and then imported back into BIAB. I'm not a keyboard player, but I'm not sure why I couldn't generate the MIDI notes from Finale, and then edit them with agorithms particular to horn parts, or guitar parts, etc.? However, again, can I then import them back into BIAB, or is there some way to do this editing right in BIAB and the freeze the track from regenerating?
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. You have to check Wiki on this one. The power chord has a lot more sound than an simple interval:
Norton Music
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