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Thanks Jim. The I learned two things. 1/ I use speaker line out of the computer to my speakers. I am pretty sure that is analog. But I did not know that some send their computer output to a USB box which converts to analog and sends to a speaker. 2/ I did not know about the buffer size concepts. That makes sense. I am guessing the video for recording midi with BIAB should talk about that. I also put it in my Course outline: Getting the BIAB midi (melody and solo tracks) to sound realJohn
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For your #1: all speakers are analog at the end, by moving a cone that moves air. After that, things get interesting. Speakers can be powered or not.
Powered speakers take the line level signal (line out). Unpowered speakers require a separate power amp.
There’s more. There’s always more.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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There’s more. There’s always more. Yes, I forgot about my notebook during jams sending microphone out backing tracks (analog) to a mixer which in turn sends line out to powered speakers. But still that is analog going out of the computer. Sounds great with those deep powerful 250 watt each pair of speakers :-)
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For thoroughly authentic piano and organ sounds you might want to check out physical instrument simulations such as -> Pianoteq Pianoteq ... I am really not impressed, the piano's sound canned, a little distorted. Too much cheap sounding reverb. It may be worth trying again with the demo. There's control over the reverb, or you can do your own in a DAW or whatever, but a really nice feature is the "condition" control almost hidden away just above the keyboard. With that you can adjust the modelling of the piano from "mint" to totally clapped out. Somewhere a little way from "Mint" tends to sound more authentic. Brand nianos need running in to sound best ... Pianoteq has an adjustment. YMMV. Gordon.
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For a few years now I have considered buying a Fishman TriplePlay Wireless MIDI Guitar Controller but held back mostly because I just didn't have enough knowledge required to take the plunge. I remember asking if this device could be used to record directly into BIAB and no one answered. So while creating my Course outline: Getting the BIAB midi (melody and solo tracks) to sound real I discovered this Recording MIDI in Band-in-a-Box video and it appears maybe I can use the triple play to record a midi melody directly into BIAB. Last night I noticed BIAB has a Quantize Melody feature under (Melody, edit melody track, quantize time adjust, quantize melody). So I am wondering if I can get a somewhat articulated (volume changes at least) midi melody into BIAB with the triple play then use the BIAB quantize feature to clean up the lead sheet and also make it sound like a real instrument by using the the "sforzando SFZ Synth" or "Coyote ForteDXi" currently mentioned at the bottom of my Course outline. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I likely to be able to get the midi melody directly into BIAB with the Triple Play? Does the BIAB quantize feature work well? What sorts of articulations can BIAB record into the midi melody or solo track and play back and why? What sorts of instruments will sound real with the "sforzando SFZ Synth" or "Coyote ForteDXi" ( assuming the person is purposely not adjusting the timing of the printed melody which I normally do in jazz before the solos start - I only monkey with the melody timing after the solos).
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/22/20 12:45 PM.
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John, You and other readers interested in guitar midi controllers may find +++ THIS +++ message thread informative. The thread compares the Fishman, Jamstick and Roland hardware. The forum is run by Jam Origin who sells monophonic and polyphonic audio to midi software. They offer software for bass and guitar with violin software in beta. There is demo software to try. Regardless of the midi guitar solution you select I believe you'll discover you'll need to adapt your playing technique to achieve the degree of accuracy you expect.
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..................
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I likely to be able to get the midi melody directly into BIAB with the Triple Play?
Yes BiaB will record MIDI regardless of what kind of MIDI controller is used.
Does the BIAB quantize feature work well?
I do not record in BiaB but I would suspect the quantize should work well.
What sorts of articulations can BIAB record into the midi melody or solo track and play back and why?
It should and probably will record every articulation that the Triple Play can send like pitch bends, vibrato, etc
What sorts of instruments will sound real with the "sforzando SFZ Synth" or "Coyote ForteDXi" (assuming the person is purposely not adjusting the timing of the printed melody which I normally do in jazz before the solos start - I only monkey with the melody timing after the solos).
The Triple Play comes with a number of included sounds that may sound better then either the SFZ or Coyote. I have found that woodwinds, brass, and guitars do not sound real in these inexpensive sound sources. You can help them by learning what articulations the instrument has and what MIDI controller will work that emulation but the better sound sources have those articulations already available, i.e. things like growl for sax and horns, staccato, real legato, etc.
Note that I don't have the Triple Play, I have an old Casio MG510 MIDI guitar controller and that I do all of my recording in my DAW, Studio One Pro 5. You will have more options when recording in a DAW; things like recording on multiple tracks and cutting and pasting, punch in and punch out recording, the ability to record many different instruments on different tracks, etc.
I hope this helps a little.
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John, You and other readers interested in guitar midi controllers may find +++ THIS +++ message thread informative. The thread compares the Fishman, Jamstick and Roland hardware. Thanks Jim, I will study that forum for sure. Might take me a while :-) John
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[quote=bowlesj]..................
The Triple Play comes with a number of included sounds that may sound better then either the SFZ or Coyote. I have found that woodwinds, brass, and guitars do not sound real in these inexpensive sound sources. You can help them by learning what articulations the instrument has and what MIDI controller will work that emulation but the better sound sources have those articulations already available, i.e. things like growl for sax and horns, staccato, real legato,
Thanks MarioD. Very helpful. What you wrote in the quote above leads to some questions. Is it likely that the Triple Play sounds can be used by BIAB? If yes would this be done via the plug in feature BIAB has which is described in this Using VST Plugins with Band-in-a-Box video? I did a Google search "using fishman triple play midi GUITAR controller plugins" and found only this one video The Fishman Tripleplay VST Plugin. I am taking a wild guess that these companies write plugins so they get more sales and these plugins have special install or use instructions. In my case the use would probably be during BIAB backing track output at a live jam. However lately I create backing track .wav files which are used mostly in Audacity since Jazz Jams Club members don't want to spend a lot of money. Each member participating in a song sends their track out to all other members who are participating and this way each participant can mix whatever way they want. So the plug in would mostly be used to simulate the melody meaning eventually a member will replace the BIAB melody with their playing the melody. However some songs might have a backing track record lift in the soloists track (a midi track). If it sounds good they may want to keep it. I just went back to the Fishman TriplePlay Wireless MIDI Guitar Controller website. Other than mentioning there is a VST this is all I found. --The triple play Works with any music software that accepts class-compliant MIDI This BIAB forum thread on using the Fishman Triple Play with BIAB may be interesting.
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/22/20 04:14 PM.
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[quote=bowlesj]..................
The Triple Play comes with a number of included sounds that may sound better then either the SFZ or Coyote. I have found that woodwinds, brass, and guitars do not sound real in these inexpensive sound sources. You can help them by learning what articulations the instrument has and what MIDI controller will work that emulation but the better sound sources have those articulations already available, i.e. things like growl for sax and horns, staccato, real legato,
Thanks MarioD. Very helpful. What you wrote in the quote above leads to some questions. Is it likely that the Triple Play sounds can be used by BIAB? Since I do not have the Triple Play nor do I record in BiaB this is just my best guess. Yes, you should be able to use the Triple Play VSTis in BiaB. Select triple Play as your input and the VSTi as your output and all should be good. If yes would this be done via the plug in feature BIAB has which is described in this Using VST Plugins with Band-in-a-Box video? I did a Google search "using fishman triple play midi GUITAR controller plugins" and found only this one video The Fishman Tripleplay VST Plugin. I am taking a wild guess that these companies write plugins so they get more sales and these plugins have special install or use instructions. In my case the use would probably be during BIAB backing track output at a live jam. However lately I create backing track .wav files which are used mostly in Audacity since Jazz Jams Club members don't want to spend a lot of money. Each member participating in a song sends their track out to all other members who are participating and this way each participant can mix whatever way they want. So the plug in would mostly be used to simulate the melody meaning eventually a member will replace the BIAB melody with their playing the melody. However some songs might have a backing track record lift in the soloists track (a midi track). If it sounds good they may want to keep it. The reason Triple Play, East West, and others are making VSTis for MIDI guitars is that each company is optimizing those VSTi presets for either specific models, like Triple Play, or for guitar MIDI controllers in general. Many soft synths like Kontakt are optimized for keyboard controllers but some third party presets are optimized for other controllers. In fact I have to go into the guts of Kontakt on some presets in order to use my wind controller. I just went back to the Fishman TriplePlay Wireless MIDI Guitar Controller website. Other than mentioning there is a VST this is all I found. --The triple play Works with any music software that accepts class-compliant MIDI This BIAB forum thread on using the Fishman Triple Play with BIAB may be interesting.
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Thank MarioD. I have it on my to do list to update my course outline with the info You and Jim have provided and from what I learn from Jim's recommended thread and that thread I found on using the triple play with BIAB. It will take me a while to get this done but it won't be forgotten. Eventually I will probably get a triple play or something similar. I like the wireless idea. At that point I will probably start to tweak the course outline (replacing the questions with answers). I use it as a reference fairly often already.
John
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/23/20 05:29 AM.
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This is interesting. I guess some of the reason some of the midi instruments sound similar to the real instrument (with every attempt to avoid articulations).
https://audiouniversityonline.com/why-do-instruments-sound-different/#:~:text=The%20reason%20the%20same%20musical,has%20a%20unique%20harmonic%20character.
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