And I also fi d that I can hear a very faint hint of very high pitch hiss on the new on the new one.
Did you not read my comment about that? Run it on the battery, that faint hiss should go away. It has something to do with the ground plug when it's plugged into the mains.
And, Matt yes I understand that headphone plug is weak but it's not a problem if you're careful with it. I did that for about 18 months when I had a duo and used Biab tracks. I got this from Mac, he was the one who explained he's been using the headphone out on his gig going to a PA. We're not talking about a recording session, we're talking about not having even more cables and devices to have to mess with. Much simpler and cleaner to just use the headphone jack.
Berndt, if you're willing to use an interface then that's your answer but if you really want to use the headphone jack, here's a vid I found that may help:
Interestingly, as per that video, this computer does not have any of those settings for the speakers.
It only has enable disable set as default. Nothing else. I find that strange but it is true.
Not that unusual the last 2 all in one PCs that I have bought a HP and a Medion are both very sparse on the sound chip functions. It seems the days of proper sound cards with like on my old dell tower are gone, that had line in & out, and headphones and even 5.1 surround sound, with the right speakers connected. Like you I now have mic, speakers (stereo only), and headphone skt. Sound seems to be the poor man of the modern pc especially on laptops and all in ones. Hence the need to buy an external Audio interface.
FYI - I had some high pitched hiss as well as other sounds when JonD was at his keyboard and had his cell phone on! If he moved closer to the keyboard all kinds of weird sounds happened. But when he backed away all we heard was a high pitched hiss. Note that his cell phone was in his pocket. He had to place his cell phone away from the keyboard.
I don't know if this is your problem or not but I thought that I should share this.
Good luck.
PS - also weird sounds will happen if your computer is close to your router. Been there - heard that also.
My goal this weekend is to move just enough each day so that no one pokes me to see if I'm dead or not.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Oh, yes, there's RFI from phones and modems and even microwave ovens, plus EMI from cables overlaying others, refrigerators, and fans on the circuit. This equals a bunch of potential noisemakers that can affect the signal (unless you are using lightpipe or S/PDIF digital signals).
Then there is transistor hiss, at a low level in all systems.
And don't forget gain staging. The basic principle is to put the gain as high as you can at each stage and only vary the final stage volume.
The problem a headphone jack presents is that the headphone output does not follow this principle; it's very easy to overdrive and create distortion by turning up the headphone output beyond the voltage from a line-out. And there's more problems that I cited above.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
All this is to say that the better solution is to buy an audio interface that connects by USB to the laptop.
Regarding the Audio Interface solution: My brand new Behringer UMC202HD interface makes a hell of a racket on the output while the USB is connected but not yet enumerated or during a computer restart or when it is not controlled by the software. Awful. It appears they forgot to mute it when there is not data coming.
Their initial support reckons that this is ok and I just need to unplug it's output during boot / restarts etc. Seems crazy to me.
Cheers Bernt
Last edited by berntd; 07/07/2004:30 PM.
Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7
No, after poking them, their support has just come back stating that he can reproduce the problem on his units. They will now escalate and investigate a root cause with a possible fix in a future firmware release.
He still insists that one can just unplug the unit or turn off the amplifier while restarting etc.
That does not help me now though.
Regards Benrt
Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7
There are two thing I see here one is if you mix music using a bass enhancement setting then the music will sound thin to anyone else playing it on their systems. This is because you are mixing with a “color” music palette that will not exist elsewhere.
Secondly the heart and soul of any music studio is the device that interfaces between the DAW software and the output equipment I.e. speakers or headphones. This piece of the puzzle is vital. I would never rely on a internal sound chip, nor be too cheap with the interface.
A good product will literally take all the fight out of the process. Focusrite, Presonus, etc. make sure that the sound card/interface does not color the sound no bass or treble boost. That way you get the bass, treble, EQ, anything at the proper levels in the actual music mix and not afterwards in the sound chain. This makes sure your mixed down song sounds good on a variety of systems cans not just yours
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
There are two thing I see here one is if you mix music using a bass enhancement setting then the music will sound thin to anyone else playing it on their systems. This is because you are mixing with a “color” music palette that will not exist elsewhere. Agree 100 percent
Secondly the heart and soul of any music studio is the device that interfaces between the DAW software and the output equipment I.e. speakers or headphones. Also agree 100 percentThis piece of the puzzle is vital. I would never rely on a internal sound chip, nor be too cheap with the interface. Strongly disagree.
A good product will literally take all the fight out of the process. Focusrite, Presonus, etc. If true then why does the forum get so many posts about no audio or trouble with drivers? make sure that the sound card/interface does not color the sound no bass or treble boost. Yes, they offer driver settings that duplicate settings available through the Windows Control Panel default audio settings That way you get the bass, treble, EQ, anything at the proper levels in the actual music mix and not afterwards in the sound chain. This makes sure your mixed down song sounds good on a variety of systems cans not just yours I agree it is better to mix with flat EQ settings.
Most present day computer audio systems can accommodate HD or surround sound audio. Many headphones and some powered speakers interface with the computer through a USB port so audio remains digital until it hits the output transducers.
In my opinion an audio interface might make sense if a user is recording tracks or if five pin midi ports are needed. But I'm not convinced an audio interface offers any enhanced capability for audio playback.
....................... In my opinion an audio interface might make sense if a user is recording tracks or if five pin midi ports are needed. But I'm not convinced an audio interface offers any enhanced capability for audio playback.[/color]
I agree that if one is going to record be it a guitar, vocal, mic, etc, then an audio interface is needed.
You don't need an audio interface for five pin MIDI ports as five pin MIDI to USB adapters are very inexpensive.
I also agree that for just audio playback there is no difference between an internal audio chip or an audio interface as far as tonal quality goes. But if the music gets choppy, or crackles, etc then you will need an audio interface with native ASIO drivers so you can increase your audio buffers to stop those playback problems.
My goal this weekend is to move just enough each day so that no one pokes me to see if I'm dead or not.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Many headphones and some powered speakers interface with the computer through a USB port so audio remains digital until it hits the output transducers ... [edit] ... But I'm not convinced an audio interface offers any enhanced capability for audio playback.
It can't remain digital forever, somewhere it is getting converted to audio in order for us to 'hear' it. The headphones/speakers need a Digital to Audio conversion somewhere in the chain. If it happens in the speakers, it is bypassing the internal audio D/A convertors, so totally sidesteps whether the internal one is any good.
To me, your post includes using a different USB device as a solution (an interface, if you will) that is separate from the internal audio chip for audio. Yet you're 'not convinced' using a separate device makes any difference. It is the Digital to Audio conversion (D/A convertors) that make much of the difference. If it avoids the internal D/A conversion it is not a fair comparison.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
I also agree that for just audio playback there is no difference between an internal audio chip or an audio interface as far as tonal quality goes
Now I have to strongly disagree. Did you not read my post? My old HP laptop produces a better audio quality than my new Behringer interface and my new Dell Inspiron laptop far worse.
Regards Bernt
Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7
I also agree that for just audio playback there is no difference between an internal audio chip or an audio interface as far as tonal quality goes
Now I have to strongly disagree. Did you not read my post? My old HP laptop produces a better audio quality than my new Behringer interface and my new Dell Inspiron laptop far worse.
Regards Bernt
There's some confusion in terminology regarding the audio output quality. In the statement above you disagree with, it references PLAYBACK in your particular circumstance with your old HP Laptop, that laptop used a software program to enhance and boost the bass frequencies and over time, playback sounded good to your ears. In fact, you found it preferable to the playback you experience from both your internal soundcard and your new Behringer interface. That's on your personal system and is relevant only to your system. Your HP produced an artificial frequency response that was not good for playback on other sound systems.
The confusion in terminology is how your audio should be mixed rather than how it sounds during playback only on your system. Of the three audio output devices, the HP with exaggerated and enhanced bass boost, is the worst device of the three for mixing your song for others to hear on their devices. The mix will always be out of balance because of that bass boost and everybody that listens to your song will experience the thin, tinniness lack of bass sound.
A good mix should be balanced to sound good at all frequencies on all the different types of playback devices. It should sound balanced on a boom box, MP3 player, Your phone, home stereo, car and on a PA system.
The statement you disagreed with referenced playback and that's a personal preference whereas the Behringer interface is clearly the most capable of producing the best mix of the three choices discussed in this thread.
If you have a good mix on the Behringer that's not tainted by artificial EQ band boosts and cuts, your song will sound good on a variety of sound systems.
You're correct that both the USB headphones and powered speakers I use in my examples have embedded D/A convertors so the computer audio circuit is completely bypassed. So what? The computer's audio circuit also gets completely bypassed when a user attaches an audio interface. Bypassing the computer audio playback circuit doesn't automatically make whatever is used instead better. Truthfully the requirement to playback audio is not that high. The weak link in a computer audio connection is the headphone jack. Connecting any audio playback device through a USB port and the weak link is bypassed. A way to minimize the headphone jack is to keep a cable always plugged into the jack so wear and tear happens to the cable and not the jack.
The gaming and podcasting markets have broadened the audience for getting sound in or out of a computer. Devices intended for those markets likely are made from the same components as audio interfaces. If you're comparing devices that are comparably priced the D/A convertors likely are comparable. Audio interfaces use to be the only avenue to consistently get high quality sound in or out of a computer but that's not true anymore.
Most USB devices marketed for podcasting or gaming are Windows compliant and use built-in Window drivers. That means they are plug and play and are automatically recognized by the operating system when connected. No set up is needed, they just work. Even USB mixers by mainline audio companies like Mackie are starting to drop ASIO drivers and use built in Windows drivers for their USB mixers.
Compare that to downloading, installing, setting up and maintaining the ASIO device drivers most audio interfaces require. Ever have an ASIO driver quit working after a Windows update?
Now give me some convincing reasons an audio interface is better for audio playback than what comes built-into the computer.
There's some confusion in terminology regarding the audio output quality. In the statement above you disagree with, it references PLAYBACK in your particular circumstance with your old HP Laptop, that laptop used a software program to enhance and boost the bass frequencies and over time, playback sounded good to your ears. In fact, you found it preferable to the playback you experience from both your internal soundcard and your new Behringer interface. That's on your personal system and is relevant only to your system. Your HP produced an artificial frequency response that was not good for playback on other sound systems.
Please do not assume that I am confused or do not know the terminology. I stand by what I said.
I have tested this with several different people listening and the result is the same. The HP has a substantially better sound, agreed by everyone who hears it over here. In fairness. by "better sound" I mean "perceived better sound".
I have since experimented with an equalizer on the new laptop output to see if I can get the sound to be similar to the HP. It is not possible.
The difference is in the fidelity of the sound not the frequency response.
It is like comparing the sound of a CD versus MP3 versus CD on a valve amplifier. It is just not there on the new laptop.
The Behringer is better but still not quite.
In fact, nobody over here can tell the differenne between the Behringer and the headphone output of my Samsung TAB A tablet - which is also not bad.
It would be interesting to run all these through an AP and see what is going on.
It is also interesting that nobody publishes any audio specs for the Laptops not the Behringer. At least, I cannot find any.
Regards Bernt
Last edited by berntd; 07/11/2001:01 PM.
Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7
There's some confusion in terminology regarding the audio output quality. In the statement above you disagree with, it references PLAYBACK in your particular circumstance with your old HP Laptop, that laptop used a software program to enhance and boost the bass frequencies and over time, playback sounded good to your ears. In fact, you found it preferable to the playback you experience from both your internal soundcard and your new Behringer interface. That's on your personal system and is relevant only to your system. Your HP produced an artificial frequency response that was not good for playback on other sound systems.
Please do not assume that I am confused or do not know the terminology. I stand by what I said.
I have tested this with several different people listening and the result is the same. The HP has a substantially better sound, agreed by everyone who hears it over here. In fairness. by "better sound" I mean "perceived better sound".
I have since experimented with an equalizer on the new laptop output to see if I can get the sound to be similar to the HP. It is not possible.
The difference is in the fidelity of the sound not the frequency response.
It is like comparing the sound of a CD versus MP3 versus CD on a valve amplifier. It is just not there on the new laptop.
The Behringer is better but still not quite.
In fact, nobody over here can tell the differenne between the Behringer and the headphone output of my Samsung TAB A tablet - which is also not bad.
It would be interesting to run all these through an AP and see what is going on.
It is also interesting that nobody publishes any audio specs for the Laptops not the Behringer. At least, I cannot find any.
Regards Bernt
I haven't assumed anything about you other than responding to what you've written. Your statement, "In fairness. by "better sound" I mean "perceived better sound"."is exactly the point I made that you've re-posted in your reply. You tell us you like the sound of the playback of the HP computer best over the other three. That's also what I said in my post you re-posted.
However, your statement, "The difference is in the fidelity of the sound not the frequency response." is incorrect. Frequency response is an element of fidelity by every definition that is an accepted industry standard definition. Your HP computer artificially altered the playback sound by boosting and enhancing the bass frequencies. Your new computer and the Behringer do not have the fidelity of their playback altered and have a more balanced and flat frequency response by design.
There are many technical specs and reasons why the Behringer is the best technical choice of the three devices you posted questions about but none of those specs or reasons may have anything to do with you preferring the sound produced by the HP over the other devices.
If your HP computer still operates, use it solely as the playback amplifier for your new laptop and you will still have the sound you like best.
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