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I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 259
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 259 |
I started working with BiaB at the beginning of April, during a lot of the Covid-19 lockdown. I bought the Pro Pack, not knowing that something called RealTracks even existed. I was initially looking for an app where I could type in chords and generate simple MIDI that I could feed into various plugins. I quickly saw the potential of using RealTracks for the kinds of music I want to produce, so within a few days had upgraded to the UltraPak. My genres of choice are jazz/latin primarily, with a dose of exotica and rock mixed in. And I'm primarily focused on doing rearrangements/reimaginations of pop/rock songs. This particular song is a cover from the repertoire of Nazz, a group from the late 1960s. It was Todd Rundgren's first band, and he was the primary songwriter, although not the vocalist. Todd has been one of my primary influences since the early 1970s, so it's only natural I mess around with his songs. The original is a rock ballad, but my take is as a samba. https://youtu.be/TEGuX3hqXtwOne of my primary vocal inspirations is Kenny Rankin, and a lot of the arrangements I'm coming up with are influenced by the instrumentation he has on many of his early albums. Nylon string guitars playing bossa or samba patterns are the foundation for many of these. When I started working with RealTracks, I was blown away by how well the jazz guitar tracks worked for the songs I want to produce - especially the nylon guitar tracks from Oliver Gannon. It's been like working with real musicians :-) I've also suffered a dislocated shoulder and rotator cuff injuries in the past couple of months, and am awaiting surgery. My original intent was to play all the keyboards and sing, and use BiaB for everything else. But I've even had to use some keyboard tracks, and have been very pleased with them. So I'm able to comfortably sit in the arranger/producer/singer chairs and let BiaB handle most of the rest. Really great product. I hope you enjoy this song! The video was produced by a good friend and fellow Todd Rundgren fan, Ronnie Temple, who I met at Todd's house in Hawaii during his 60th birthday celebration in 2008. We've been close friends ever since, and he worked in the corporate video world for many years, so was a natural to partner with. Everything but vocals are from BiaB. I mixed/mastered in Cakewalk. Style is _NOITE+.STY (Noite Brazilian Samba MultiStyle) RealTracks in style: ~717:Bass, Acoustic, Samba Ev 190 RealTracks in song: 2892:Piano, Electric, Rhythm FusionFastLatinJeff Ev 190 RealTracks in style: 3256:Guitar, Nylon, Rhythm SambaRamon Ev 240 RealTracks in song: 723:Sax, Soprano, Soloist Samba Ev 190 RealTracks in song: 1773:Piano, Electric, Soloist JazzFunkMovin Ev16 130 RealDrums [in style:SambaBrazilFastBrushPercAlex: a: SambaBrazilFastBrushPercAlexb: SambaBrazilFastBrushPercAlex
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I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,115
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,115 |
So I'm able to comfortably sit in the arranger/producer/singer chairs and let BiaB handle most of the rest. I believe that you certainly sat in every one of those chairs extremely well. A great arrangement.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 259
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 259 |
Thanks, VideoTrack! I find the whole process of developing an arrangement a real blast in BiaB. I like many find the interface a bit antiquated and quirky, but once I got into the "groove" of things, I enjoy being able to mix and match as needed. BTW, I have a link to the original Nazz version in the Youtube video comments. but here it is as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWuPEHLzCaU
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I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,414
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,414 |
Wow - very well done, I thoroughly enjoyed my listen. It fits really well with the samba groove 
Cheers,
Deryk
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I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,596
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,596 |
Nice vocal.
Love those sambas.
+1 for Kenny Rankin and Todd Rundgren. They both record near me (or used to).
It sounded to me like the sax sound was struggling. If you are only a few metronome markings away from the recommended tempo, it can affect some RealTracks. Sambas in BIAB can be tricky because most of the RealTracks are counted in 4/4 with tempos around 190 (like some of the ones you used). Your song is clearly in cut time at 120 bpm. However, your BIAB tempo is probably set at 240, yes? Then you fall into that middle ground where its uncertain what instruments to use. The drums adapt well. Other instruments, you might consider changing the time base. When you select a RealTrack, you will see a setting for double-time or half-time. Play around with it on some instruments like the solo piano; you might be surprised.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 259
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 259 |
Matt, thanks so much for listening and also for the comments and recommendations. I’ve listen to your Brazilian recording and love it so I know you are well-versed in the style. I’m recovering from shoulder surgery so mostly replying via Siri, otherwise I would go into more detail about how much I enjoyed your recording. But I do look forward to listening again.
And thanks so much for the suggestions – you are correct that the tempo is 240 , And the soprano sax is at 190. So a middle ground. When I get a chance to sit back at the computer I will experiment a bit more with some tempos and other settings. I have used the halftime and double time settings on other tunes and it’s giving some good results in some cases. I’m still like a kid in a candy store with Band in a box, having all of these virtual side man at my beckoning . So still working out my own best practices and checklist for the whole workflow. I’m having a blast with it.!
A question you or someone else might be able to help with. If I do want to work with the tempo change, I had frozen the tracks in the BiaB file because I like the sax and how it would integrate with the vocal. If I change the track tempo I assume I would have to unfreeze everything and then I would get completely different playing. Is there some notion where unfreezing a track would still give the same patterns that were played previously? I hope that makes sense. I would think BiaB internally has to have some "road map" they calculate for each instrument each time the tracks are regenerated. Would be nice to freeze that.
Last edited by cwiggins999; 08/15/20 05:59 AM.
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I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,596
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,596 |
I think I understand this question. If the song tempo changes, the song really should regenerate and then you get what you get for comping patterns, with no guarantees it will have all the elements you like from another generation. If you just freeze all the tracks and change the tempo too far, you'll get unpleasant artifacts in the sound. But you are correct, some amazing things can be done by freezing some tracks and not others. Another poster today wanted pushes on just the guitar, for example. When you combine freezing with time base, there are so many possibilities.
Thanks for the kind words about my music. I don't generally run into the problem of a soloist RealTrack sounding not quite right, because that's the part I furnish, so I don't have any good suggestions.
I did want to mention I've had a short discussion with Peter Gannon about the tempo of a samba. I hear them counted in two at tempos around 100. BIAB counts them in four at tempos close to 200. My drummer on the CD, who played with Spyro Gyra and Blood, Sweat & Tears, agrees with me. A similar problem exists in BIAB Bluegrass. I hope we could see some samba styles in the future more like what I think is the standard: cut time. The good news is that, with the BIAB time base being extended to RealDrums recently, all the tools are there.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 310
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 310 |
I absolutely LOVE THIS !! So smooth and cool !! Video's nice. I also like rearranging covers in a different style but this ain't about me. It's about you. Nice job and very well done. I have no IMHO's tips for you musically ... LOL In my view if I like what I produce and NON-Musicians like it I'm overjoyed. Produce for music lovers and not musicians and you'll be a lot happier. Musicians are great but sometimes a bit too picky. Even if the notes wrong if the feels right it all works out. I learned that from a few producers over the years.
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I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 3,008
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 3,008 |
I really enjoyed the use of the Style! Thanks for sharing.
Cheers,
Ember
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I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 259
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 259 |
Thanks! The huge variety of styles and ability to audition and swap in various RealTracks give an incredible amount of choice to musicians.
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Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
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- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
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- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
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- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
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