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Over the years I have heard some PDG original songs offered by many of our forum members, my question is why are you wonderful songwriters not testing your songs before worldwide live audiences via live streams?
To me it would seem to be a very cost effect way to not only get your tunes heard but to receive instant feedback from real people. I know from experience that these audiences welcome original music, in fact there are a few regulars that do entire shows of their original songs on one of the venues I play.
Just wonder if "our" forum songwriters are aware of these venues?
Later,
Last edited by Danny C.; 08/14/20 04:41 AM.
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My guess Danny is that some of the folks that write songs here may not be live playing musicians but rather studio-only musicians. Others could probably try those avenues though.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
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I write professionally, but only perform recreationally. I've played a great many songwriter shows, and sometimes I still do - but at my age/stage of life, live performance isn't a priority or desire of mine. I like the behind-the-scenes nature of what I do.
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Over the years I have heard some PDG original songs offered by many of our forum members, my question is why are you wonderful songwriters not testing your songs before worldwide live audiences via live streams?
To me it would seem to be a very cost effect way to not only get your tunes heard but to receive instant feedback from real people. I know from experience that these audiences welcome original music, in fact there are a few regulars that do entire shows of their original songs on one of the venues I play.
Just wonder if "our" forum songwriters are aware of these venues?
Later, Got any links to these "worldwide live audiences"? I'm familiar with Street Jelly but every time I go there it seems like the vast majority of artists performing have only a tiny handful of listeners, often just a couple. I think this is a lot like every other "opportunity" in that you have to work really hard to gain any significant audience and prolly bring your own fan base at a minimum.
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I've tuned in to a few live stream shows of well established artists that have numerous CD's/downloads that have been successful and there were only of handful of people watching.
While live streaming may be successful someday, for now you could make more money and get a bigger audience busking.
One of the main reasons I've always avoided trying to make money playing music is that I couldn't possibly care any less about what people want to hear. If they don't want hear what I'm playing, they should just go away. I would always refuse to play requests even when folks asked me to play songs I know and like.
I've always played for my own enjoyment, not other peoples enjoyment.
All of the songs I've written were created because they were meaningful to me.
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eddie1261
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You can go live on Facebook, Youtube, or Twitch too. You'll need OBS, a camera, some kind of physical or virtual mixer and a GOOD mic. My system has Logitec C270 cameras (3 of them - front, left and right), an XML 900 mic (soon to become an EV RE20) and a GoXLR mixer.
One big thing is to NOT watch your live stream from the viewer's side. Watch it from your side only. If you watch what the viewers see you will also see the lag and it will be like singing the national anthem in a big stadium. You will hear "Oh say can you 'oh say can you' see 'see'....) The first time I streamed a live "talk show" on youtube I actually had youtube running and tried to watch what the viewer(s) were seeing and it was a nightmare. No matter your speed is, your speed upstream is usually 10% of your speed downstream. So if your ISP gives you 120 mbps down, you will likely see no more than 12 mbps up. And to transmit video, that is not a lot of bandwidth.
The downside of the setup I have is that this room where it's all set up is rather small. I could probably pull it off. I just don't know if I want to move what I need to do live music from the music studio upstairs to the media room downstairs to stream 45 minutes and then move it all back up.
What's the other one that isn't Street Jelly Danny?
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My guess Danny is that some of the folks that write songs here may not be live playing musicians but rather studio-only musicians. Others could probably try those avenues though. Yep....I'd guess that equation to be about 50/50. Danny: As far as performing my originals on live streaming sites? Personally, even though I did upload a couple of my originals to youtube (I played rhythm axe) and some cover tune play-alongs, I don't have any illusions that performing my originals with BIAB backing tracks would actually have any mass appeal. That requires a level of confidence in one's original material that I don't posses. Seeing myself on camera was also a difficult mental hurdle for me to get passed.  Plus, I don't think the subjects I choose to write about cater to any popular genre or listening audience. IE: country, love songs, story telling folk music, slow ballads and rap. A good weekend to all....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 08/14/20 11:43 PM.
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Before the Covid-19 thing came along I played with some friends of mine who were pretty young. This was live at good venues where at least two or three hundred people were there.
I don't need money. I have enough. I let the band keep whatever I may have made.
The issue I had and still have is I like to write in several styles which is to much work for most young musicians to learn. Also some venue owners want to only hear a certain style of music. For this and many other reasons, old age, health problems, I have less and less desire to play live. Secondly, I don't need anyone else to like or dislike me and I certainly do not want to become well known. Been there, done that, and got the T-Shirt.
I assume there are many people here that write music because they like it. They do it for their own amusement and amazement. It obviously feels good when someone hears something you write and says they like it. But for myself I have gotten to the stage I have very little need for other peoples approval.
Many people only attach value to something based on how much money it makes and how popular it becomes. I know personally many well known artist and listen to a wide range of music in several languages and really enjoy them. Having said that, most of the CD's in my truck are my own stuff.
I don't think it is very important what others think of me or what I think about them. What is important is what I think about myself. When I am happy with who I am everything just goes really well.
For those of you who need to make money with music, and who need to become well known, there has never been a better time than now. But...be aware of who you are competing with and do the work needed to become professional. I don't know anything any harder to do than become a true professional at than music.
The very best of luck to all of you,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Well, Danny, I'm not sure, but I think it's because recording and producing a song in my home studio is completely different than performing that song live. And also, once I produce a song with all of the Real Tracks and it becomes what I intended or what I originally heard when I wrote it, singing the song by myself while playing acoustic guitar never sounds right. There's no lead guitar, there's no cello, there's no drums. In most cases, I would need at least a live trio to even get close to my recordings.
As an example, 'The Storm' has an instrumental break with harmonica and piano, heck, the song is built around those two instruments. Now, I can play a version of the song singer-songwriter style, and I've worked out an acoustic guitar lead, but then I have to spend a fair amount of time practicing that lead until it's solid. Meanwhile, there are other songs to be written and/or recorded.
Having said that, I'm thinking more and more about singing a few tunes via Facebook live. There's a new Facebook group tailored to my area. There's a schedule and it's only one performance at a time, 30 minute sets. I went live on Streetjelly recently, to see if I remembered how to broadcast mostly, but I'll bet it's been over a month.
Scott
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Eddie,
There is also StagIt and Twitch and of course FB. There was one called Krue but poorly mismanaged and they went under. But there were some big tippers in that large audience for sure.
For songwriters I was just thinking it would be an easy way to get your songs heard and be able to present them like no one but the writer can. I was just curious, nothing else.
Later Eddie!
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Obviously not for you, thanks for the time to answer my question Billy. As far as trying to become famous or get someone to like me, even make money at it that for sure isn't this old cat's goal. I was just thinking it would be a good venue for writers to showcase their work.
Take care,
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Fully understand, thanks for the time to feed my curiosity.
Stay well,
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Over the years I have heard some PDG original songs offered by many of our forum members, my question is why are you wonderful songwriters not testing your songs before worldwide live audiences via live streams?
To me it would seem to be a very cost effect way to not only get your tunes heard but to receive instant feedback from real people. I know from experience that these audiences welcome original music, in fact there are a few regulars that do entire shows of their original songs on one of the venues I play.
Just wonder if "our" forum songwriters are aware of these venues?
Later, Got any links to these "worldwide live audiences"? I'm familiar with Street Jelly but every time I go there it seems like the vast majority of artists performing have only a tiny handful of listeners, often just a couple. I think this is a lot like every other "opportunity" in that you have to work really hard to gain any significant audience and prolly bring your own fan base at a minimum. Not trying to reinvent the wheel, and I have nothing to sell here, I thought it might be a great way to get original music heard. But thanks for your time to reply. Re: links my last show had audience members fro GB, Japan, Australia, the Philippines, Canada of course and India. A Google Red Pin map is provided to each artist after each show, along with complete breakdown of financials and audience "in room" info etc.etc. Later,
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Thanks for the time to reply Roger.
Stay Well,
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Great point Steve, thanks for the reply.
Take Care,
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eddie1261
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That requires a level of confidence in one's original material that I don't posses. You remember there was a scene in (I think) Moonstruck where Cher slaps a guy and yells "Snap out of it!"? That is required here. Your songs tell your stories, and nobody else can tell your stories. That means that by default, you are doing it right. And as I always say just before I go on stage (not THIS year though - thanks Covid!) "No matter how many bad notes you hit, you still play better than those people in the audience who DON'T play!" Plus, I don't think the subjects I choose to write about cater to any popular genre or listening audience. IE: country, love songs, story telling folk music, slow ballads and rap. I can think of only one way to find out, right? I have watched a fair amount of Street Jelly and I often come away with this thought. While what I just watched was NOT a great singer a la Sinatra or Buble, when I DID see was a good entertainer, and that's what matters. Is the performer entertaining. Danny C is a REALLY good entertainer. The mix of folksy humor and down home-ness makes for a very pleasant show. His music and playing fits his overall show. Plus he has that really cool Nawlins accent, and that automatically makes ANYBODY cool! I go through a vocal confidence crisis every time I post a song. (I haven't done much lately.) And the comments I get all have the same trending idea that while I am not in the aforementioned category of Sinatra and Buble, my voice fits the mood and lyrics of my songs. I did one a while back called I Hope Somebody Cries, and it's a story of my life, much like what you do, and as I was singing it I LITERALLY had a picture of Johnny Cash on my 2nd monitor, because as I performed the vocals I wanted to envision Johnny Cash singing it. If he were alive, he and the song would have been perfect for each other. And many of the comments I got completely disregarded the nasal quality of my voice and went right to the story that the lyrics told. And that's how I see what you just said. Just go for it. Remember. Everybody is great. The world just doesn't know it yet.
Last edited by eddie1261; 08/16/20 05:05 AM.
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I am really confused by that reply, Scott. If you wrote them with PG tracks, why WOULD you perform them solo? Just pull your vocal track out, render them out to MP3 and play the backing tracks. Geeze, bands do that live all the time. You see a trio with a front singer on stage but you hear keys, horns, lush backing vocals.....
It takes some gear and a good amount of prep to learn how to stream, but you can do it. And you should. You have a strong voice that fits your work perfectly.
Last edited by eddie1261; 08/16/20 12:41 PM.
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I get your points 1261... I guess I feel I know my place in the music world. I don't really promote my song writing efforts other than showing my s/c site (12 years) in my signature and on a couple of other music sites. (This is a pretty thorough site that I've been on for some years: https://www.tdpri.com/forums/) I don't write what I perceive to be 'commercially viable" or "having mass appeal" material. Hence, my fan (singular :)) base is non-existent for those reasons and the fact those that did listen did not find them noteworthy or appealing. I write songs as creative therapy....and constantly pimping my material with those lofty hopes we're discussing here seems pointless. Should someone listen to my drivel and/or comment favorably...well...that works for me. Yep...my singing, reminiscent of a dull chain saw, is my biggest hurdle to overcome too. But...I keep plugging along although no new song ideas at this moment. (EDIT: Ive checked out SJ and few times. Danny C. puts on a great show and exhibits a very friendly persona without a lot of the trite small talk. I don't go there often for a couple of reasons) A good day to all....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 08/16/20 10:07 AM.
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Danny, Other than occasionally writing on the keyboard I rarely play - No great loss. I've always been a much better singer than I ever was a player.
Aging means, I can't wear contacts anymore or see without my glasses. I gained 10 lbs since my last avatar picture in March. I've got to get used to more of me to love....ha!
But while I'm working the excess weight off the biggie I'm trying to overcome is that my music room is a long rectangle with all these doors - six to be exact plus two windows. There's also a low hanging ceiling fan right in dead center. It's a multi purpose room with yellow walls. I'm trying to work out how to get a good background for nice looking camera shots in there. Long shots are impossible without a bunch of cropping and masking. And I hate all the shots so close up in my face. I haven't had a lot of luck with the green screen because it's hard to get far enough out from it not to get artifacts. There's so much post I'd have to do just to get a decent video. So far I haven't been happy with the results of any I've tried. PM me some suggestions if you have any.
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eddie1261
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This turned into a really great thread!! The biggest issue I have had virtually attending these shows is that I usually have something of higher priority going on. When it's a Sunday night I am watching football. Other nights often conflict with hockey, etc.... And I have tuned into Danny's stream twice over the years at 7pm MY time just to see him say goodnight because he played at 7pm HIS time. Yeah... I know.....
As far as streaming to 4 or 5 people, well, I can only tell you that Brian Culbertson tells the story of how, early in his career, he played herein Cleveland and there were 6 people in the audience. But the spirit carries on and he did his show as if it was to 600. The old "I don't care. I play for me." chestnut, while true, only prompts the question "Then why are you here?" Sit at home and play your 1000 song catalog to your dog and cats. If it gives you satisfaction to play to nobody, you do you!! You can award yourself the "songwriter of the year here in my house" award every year, win some "Homey Awards".... whatever satisfies your soul, because in the final countdown, you are the only one you need to impress.
Danny donates his tips. That's his motivation. And I laud that. I may do a stream, but between audio and video, I have 6 weeks of prep before I'd be ready to do that. We'll see.
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