PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Covid 19; Is ignorance or indifference putting more lives at risk?

Have you looked into a mirror lately?

Daily!! I'm GORGEOUS!!!!

Re the Covid fatality count. It was said months ago by CDC I think that just to "attempt" to keep that count consistent nationwide, if someone dies and they have Covid in their system then regardless of what else they have, it's counted as a Covid death. That's fine but news reports NEVER say anything about that so yes I agree, the death count reports are over hyped and should be put into context.

The other thing is the false positive case numbers. Have any of you seen the NY Times article from last week about that? Here's the opening teaser:

The standard tests are diagnosing huge numbers of people who may be carrying relatively insignificant amounts of the virus.

Most of these people are not likely to be contagious, and identifying them may contribute to bottlenecks that prevent those who are contagious from being found in time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html

It's not behind a paywall, just hit the Continue arrow in the right of the popup window.

The article is long and detailed and to me it's absolutely astounding in it's implications. It has not been picked up by anybody, not on the right, not on the left and I really don't get it.

Bob

Yeah, and being spread by no less than former heads of the CIA and MI6, Mike Pompeo and Richard Dearlove.
https://news.sky.com/story/former-head-of-mi6-says-theory-coronavirus-was-made-in-wuhan-lab-must-not-be-dismissed-as-conspiracy-12021693
As the story is told, the virus project was in the hands of the bio-weapons research labs in Fort Detrick, MD., and Madison Wisconsin. When the program was closed around 2000, it was transferred to the Wuhan lab with the goal of making the virus more contageous.
That connection becomes worth investigating when the role of China in spreading the disease is considered.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/chinas-devastating-lies/
From the Article: According to a New York Times study of cellphone data from China, 175,000 people leave Wuhan that day. According to global travel data research firm OAG, 21 countries have direct flights to Wuhan. In the first quarter of 2019 for comparison, 13,267 air passengers traveled from Wuhan, China, to destinations in the United States, or about 4,422 per month. The U.S. government would not bar foreign nationals who had traveled to China from entering the country for another month.
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Call these whacky theories if you want, John. As for me, at my age and condition, I am taking every precaution, and, not as much as you might think, for myself, but more to avoid contracting the virus and spreading it to someone whose life is ahead of them.

Questions...

How many lost lives is a fair price to pay to keep us out of a depression?

For those promoting going back to normal, would you volunteer to be executed by lethal injection or any another method of your choice next week if your death would save the economy?

If not, do you feel it's fair to ask others to do that?

Do you want the children to go back to school, and when granny dies, know it was their fault and live with that guilt?

Since an estimated 1/3 of even young and asymptomatic people are ending up with permanent organ damage (heart, lung, kidney, brain) does the price of our future health care burden justify a premature opening?

When the gov't gives the upper 5% trillions of dollars in tax cuts is it wrong to spend trillions to keep the unemployed due to a shut down alive?

It's been revealed that Trump knew how severe this disease was from day one and intentionally downplayed it for 6 weeks telling us it was nothing to worry about, now we have 1/3 COVID cases and deaths in the entire world, and we certainly don't have 1/3 of the world's population. We don't even have 1/3 the population of China. Doesn't the responsibility of the price of relief fall squarely on his shoulders? Shouldn't he give his entire fortune up before asking anyone else to give up a dollar?

Why aren't we taxing the rich to save the economy? People like Bezos, Gates, Buffett and the rest of the upper 5% could lose 90% of their fortunes and it wouldn't affect their life style one bit. After all, without a working class who can afford to buy their products?

Why do we allow "news" outlets to give 'pants on fire' lies disguised as news and not have a big flashing "OPINION" banner over these stories. Shouldn't the public and the opposition be able to sue the 'news' for bald faced lies and after so many losses, have them lose their license? Free speech doesn't give you the right to bear false witness.

This goes to government as well. Shouldn't habitual liars be kicked out of office? Our governor fired the person running the COVID statistics in our state because she refused to 'fudge the figures' and drastically reduce the number of sick and dead. Didn't the wrong person get fired?

Shouldn't our leaders be fact checked and if caught intentionally trying to deceive the people who put them in office shouldn't they be fired? They are our employees and isn't that what a good boss does?

My sister-in-law almost died because she believed Trump's intentional lies and her son and his fiance were also in the hospital fighting for their lives.

Questions, just questions.

Insights and incites by Notes

Well said, Notes. Well said indeed!

The articles you linked don't actually say the idea that a "Chinese bio-weapon" is the "official story."

Richard Dearlove was the head of MI6 from 1999 to 2004. He offers his personal belief that the virus is a made in a laboratory. This goes against the British intelligence community, which has declared it not man-made. He's careful not to say it's a "bio-weapon":

The article also says the US intelligence community doesn't think a "Chinese bio-weapon" is the most likely explanation:

Since the virus lacks markers that indicate that it was created in a laboratory, most scientists also consider "Chinese bio-weapon" as the unlikely explanation for the virus.

That's not to say that it's impossible that the virus is man-made, or that it can't be part of a Chinese bio-weapon program.

But the article doesn't support the conclusion that "Chinese bio-weapon" is the "official story" for the virus. In fact, it says the opposite.

The second article you cite gives a long list of lies that China gave about the Corona virus.

However, nowhere does it suggest that virus is a "Chinese bio-weapon".


That said (and most importantly): Thumbs up on looking out for others! Stay safe.

I don’t know about your part of the world but here in my part of the world the incidence of common cold and flu has greatly reduced this year. They say that this is the effect of social distancing (including masks) and increased hygiene such as hand washing.

So it seems there are benefits in treating COVID with respect. Albeit I miss the freedom and carefree way of life.

My thoughts
Tony

I agree about contextual, but then you speak of nationwide protocols which I actually believe the CDC has provided. Our country runs a specific way and the States have a lot of power that the federal government does not or cannot infringe upon. Education is a state run enterprise with every state having different rules and requirements, a national plan doesn't make sense in a state like Wyoming with cases in the single digits each day compared to a state like California with thousands daily. Countries that did not shut down at all had no worse or better outcomes, generally speaking. Many studies recently have shown that the shutdowns have caused some much worse conditions and problems than the virus has, suicides spiking, domestic violence spiking etc.

Just an opinion no better or worse than anyone else's.

Dr. Anthony Fauci in response to a question about Trump's conduct at the beginning: “I didn't get any sense that he was distorting anything. I mean in my discussions with him, they were always straightforward about the concerns that we had. We related that to him. And when he would go out, I'd hear him discussing the same sort of things.”

Trump banned incoming flights from China on January 27, yet on February 24 Nancy Pelosi was seen in a video, since deleted from her Twitter account, encouraging people to visit San Francisco’s Chinatown for a New Year’s Celebration. No masks, no social distancing, no regard for the virus she now claims the president should have been doing something about at the very moment she stood in a crowd.

despite what the president may have known in January and February, the science behind social distancing and mask-wearing wasn’t being pushed at the time.

The World Health Organization declared the virus a global pandemic on March 11, and the president responded the next day by banning incoming flights from 26 European nations in an effort to slow the spread. Within a week we were all locked at home watching “Tiger King,” as part of a 15-day initiative to flatten the curve, give or take 180 days.

The problem with all of this is that many things stated on "news" programs are opinion, which was not always the case. Once people decided to make the whole thing political any idea of getting a straight answer about anything went out the window. Just yesterday every Senate democrat voted against the Senate's version of a stimulus bill. Why? Because it didn't include things that have nothing to do with stimulus or helping people. Nothing will ever get done at this rate.

Having said all that I respect everyone's right to have their own opinion, I served 20 years on the Navy in my way to try to defend that right. So don't take anything I have said here as an attack.

We all watched the VIDEO of day after day as Dr. Fauci had to phrase everything so carefully to keep from upsetting his boss while his boss kept downplaying the danger and suggesting incredibly stupid things like injecting bleach. Now we have audio recording of trump admitting he intentionally played down the danger while Americans DIED! Can you even imagine withholding reports of a hurricane because you don't want to panic people? This pandemic has already killed almost 200,000 Americans!


Another inconvenient FACT is that ban still allowed 40,000 people to travel here from China! They brought COVID in in great numbers.


Another FACT...Pelosi is not president!


Another inconvenient fact...Yesterday he held a rally with thousands of unmasked people who were NOT social distancing!


No, there are plenty of facts available but some are just too hard-headed to heed them! No doubt there has been a lot of political stuff but in 2020 it ceased to be political and instead is CRIMINAL as trump continues to let Americans die because he won't support a unified scientific approach to solving this problem.


The rejected GOP "stimulus" bill cut out money for a second round of stimulus checks that were included in an earlier GOP proposal. And it doesn't offer new funding for cash-strapped states. Oh and Republican Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., voted with Democrats in opposing the bill The Dems passed a comprehensive bill in MAY but the senate refused to even vote on it!

I do have to say that I'm not at all surprised by the revelations in Woodward's book about trump lying about Covid from the beginning. If I found anything surprising it would be that anyone would believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

We've almost became numb to the lying since it's now expected on a daily basis about every subject. It's a sad time for our nation.

An international pandemic killing hundreds of thousands of people, police brutality at unprecedented levels, race riots in the streets, peaceful protesters having tear gas and flash bangs used on them to move them back so trump can have a photo op in front of a church, our wounded and fallen veterans being called "losers and suckers", our Generals being called "babies and p*****s", our country taking a back seat to the world on climate change, etc.

We never would have tolerated this kind of behavior before from the oval office. Why are we tolerating all of this now?

To start with, I'm a +50 year registered independent, moderate voter. I lean a little left on social issues and a little right on fiscal ones. I don't like either extreme.

I'm the swing voter both parties try to woo and I've criticized and/or applauded politicians from both sides of the divide.

I've posted these before and got a lot of flack.

Both FOX and MSNBC give over 50% lies. Don't believe either one. From Politifact, a Pulitzer prize fact checker that treats and/or trashes both left and right sides equally. They are simply fact checkers, not fake news agents or news agents of any kind.



Add the numbers up. Can you trust either FOX or MSNBC to tell you the truth?

Those who trash CNN and NPR need to wake up. You are the victims of fake news. I understand they disagree with FOX and MSNBC a lot, but remember FOX and MSNBC both lie a lot. CNN and NPR are quite reliable. They have the best truth scores.

Also from Politifact:



I believe nothing left of The Atlantic or right of The Hill. These two lean left and right but are basically reliable.

You can believe what you want, but if you choose to believe a source that feeds you over 50% lies, you are being played.


First of all, thank you for your service to our country. According to Trump are you a loser or a sucker?

My daughter and grand-daughter are both currently serving as is my son-in-law, they have done tours in the middle east combat zones and not one of them is a loser or sucker. They are patriots serving our country (without begging out due to ficticious heel spurs). My daughter and son-in-law are lifers.

I resent Trump's comments and his continued trashing of those who gave the ultimate sacrifice and the Gold Star families. If Pelosi or Obama called service men or women losers, what would you say to that?

@edshaw Do you really think the Chinese would develop a bio-weapon and let it loose on their own population? I find that very hard to believe.

The fact is Trump lied for 6 weeks and mega-thousands of people died directly because of that. IMO that's mass murder. Meanwhile the politicians were adjusting their stock portfolios putting their financial gains in front of the lives of their constituents.

Trump lied, people died.

Trump was a super-spreader of this virus because he told us; not to wear masks, it's a hoax, it'll disappear by may, it's just the flu, and so on. Trump fired the pandemic team experts before the virus hit. Trump ignored the medical exports and instead told us to do stupid things like inject bleach into our veins. This is not what I think is presidential action.

Sorry to be so political, but this about the virus, and this was botched by the people in charge. I can't discuss it without being political.

I have no vendetta against either party, I have voted for Democrats, Republicans and 'third party' candidates in the past. The fact is this administration failed to protect the people they are responsible for protecting.

You can quote all the FOX talking points you like, but remember when FOX news pundits are fact checked, 60% of what they say ranges from "Mostly false" to "Pants On Fire" lies.

Seek the truth, not what supports your chosen candidate.

Insights and incites by Notes