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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 362
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 362 |
Hey folks. I'm really at my wits end here. I'm hoping that there are some other people who have been in the same position and pushed through it to the other side. Here's my dilemma: I've been composing music for about 3 years now, and just returned to playing keyboard after a few years of lessons on organ about 40 years ago. I feel like I've just hit a wall in the last few months. Maybe I've reached the limit of my abilities to learn and play, and it's just incremental from here. I've been studying music theory, listening to and watching classic Jazz, Blues, and rock performances and YouTube videos. I've spent a lot of time in the forums here and with BIAB over the last year and a half, trying to absorb as much as possible. There's some serious talent here, so I'm not concerned with trying to reach the top tier in this group - I just want to be able to produce something that captures what I want to express and make it good enough that people want more. I really value being part of a music community and want to participate as well as listen to it.
I realize that there's no simple answer to anyone's particular set of challenges, but if anyone can share some insights or experiences that you have had where you made a breakthrough, or a had turning point or found someone or something that really helped you, I would really like to hear about it.
Thanks!
Ed Z Soundcloud profile https://soundcloud.com/user-415064494BIAB user since 2019 iPad Mini, Garageband for iOS, BIAB for Windows 2020 UltraPAK, Xtra Styles packs 6-9, Windows 10 Lenovo PC, Kontakt Player, SpitFire LABS, SampleTank 4 CS, some Soundfonts
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Hi Ed, I doubt very much you have reached your limit of abilities. I believe only quitters achieve that goal  I have told all of my guitar students you are going to hit a wall sometime. How you handle that is up to you. Keep on learning is what I suggest. If you are having writers' block then try something completely different like read a book, take a walk, etc then try to write a song about that experience. I also have BiaB write a melody and/or solo for me. I never take them as given but I usually can find a phrase or two that I can turn into a song. If you are having problems mixing a song then slowly dissect what you have and then try different things to achieve what you want. This can be a tedious trial and error process but it is worth it in the long run. Lastly don't compare yourself with anyone else, just please yourself. That is what I do. I know that there are BiaB pros here producing, IMHO, radio ready songs. I have my own new age, smooth jazz, and blues world that I live in. Am I ever going to make any money with my songs, no, but I have fun composing and producing them anyway. YMMV
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 362
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 362 |
Thanks Mario. That first line - so funny but so true. Fortunately I stopped trying to compare/compete a long time ago, and that was a huge weight lifted. All of these are good tips. It's always nice to hear from people like yourself who take time to give back 
Ed Z Soundcloud profile https://soundcloud.com/user-415064494BIAB user since 2019 iPad Mini, Garageband for iOS, BIAB for Windows 2020 UltraPAK, Xtra Styles packs 6-9, Windows 10 Lenovo PC, Kontakt Player, SpitFire LABS, SampleTank 4 CS, some Soundfonts
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Jul 2002
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I just want to be able to produce something that captures what I want to express
Can you be more specific about why you think you may not be already doing this
and make it good enough that people want more.
What does want more actually mean to you
Are you expecting to make money And/or increase subscribers to your SoundCloud channel
Answers to these questions may help people help you
Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit M4 pro Mac mini 1tb HD 24GB mem casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 362
Journeyman
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@pghboemike - Those are good questions. I'll give a couple examples.
I'd like to create some jazz or blues songs with some colorful chord combinations, not just basic minor, major and 7th triads - adding 13ths and 11ths and passing chords, etc. I'd like to split them across two hands, and that sort of thing, along with a melody. So there would be backing tracks, but the piano would be mainly from a midi keyboard. Right now, my arrangements are quite bland and bulky sounding. I favor the sounds of someone like Bill Evans in style, although I've listened carefully to samples like Miles Black's Realtracks.
On a rock song, where I might perform a guitar solo, the challenge there is to get the timing right and the accents and swing on the right beats. I listen to some of the BIAB generated solos, and it's not easy to get that sort of interesting feel out of my own, and it *is* easy to drift off into something rambling. I'd be using the keyboard here too since I don't have an electric guitar.
There are similar things with pop songs, and other styles. I feel stronger at creating melodies than harmonies, so thank goodness for BIAB, but I want the songs to sound fresh and well produced.
Not expecting to make money. More subscribers to SoundCloud would be nice, but only from people coming back for more. I really want people to connect with the music and feel something, preferably a song that will hook them and stay with them for a while. Better chops so that I can do more collaborations. I enjoy the process of creating music on my own, but its also great to be contributing something to a community.
Ed Z Soundcloud profile https://soundcloud.com/user-415064494BIAB user since 2019 iPad Mini, Garageband for iOS, BIAB for Windows 2020 UltraPAK, Xtra Styles packs 6-9, Windows 10 Lenovo PC, Kontakt Player, SpitFire LABS, SampleTank 4 CS, some Soundfonts
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Aug 2018
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Ed. I don't know if my example is actually producing the results for me that you are wanting for yourself. That's for other people to say. But I'll chime in any way. As long as I have been writing/composing, I have been trying to try out some new (to me) musical concept. It's hardly worth learning if you can't/won't actually do something with it. Usually, that has been either structural or harmonic/chord progressions.
But you mentioned melody. So here's something I'd like to do more of but lack your skill with melodic instruments. Explore MODES (and other less common scales).
Here's a quick and dirty way to do this without ever leaving the white keys.
C Major Scale (AKA Ionian). CDEFGAB-C C is the root note. C major is the I chord.
D Dorian. DEFGABC-D D is the root note. Dminor is the I (i) Chord. Try writing a melody that treats D as the root note but only uses the white keys.
E Phrygian. EFGABCD-E E is the root note. Em is the I (i) chord. Try writing a melody that treats E as the root note, but only uses the white keys.
I'll skip a few (though they are just as useful) and go to A Aeolian (AKA A minor). ABCDEFG-A. A is the root note. Aminor is the I (i) chord. Try writing a melody that treats A as the root note and only uses the white keys.
Even if you don't want to write a whole piece like that, look at it for sections. Try out those very easy to play scales, left hand either on the root note, the I or i chord, or a root power chord. Each one has their own "flavor", and if that "flavor" is what you're looking for to make your pieces more memorable, then there's an answer for you.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Building on what Tangmo said, here's a really great post from the forums on modes... The modes ranked by brightness
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 362
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 362 |
@tangmo - Your comments are very encouraging. I've read a bit about the modes, but I have never tried using them when creating a song. Plus, you are too humble - whatever your technique, there's great melodic elements in your music. @sslechta - That's a great video. I've watched channel before, but I had not seen that one. Thanks much. It's been great to see so many responses to this post. Seeing some of the music you're making and hearing from you is a great motivation
Ed Z Soundcloud profile https://soundcloud.com/user-415064494BIAB user since 2019 iPad Mini, Garageband for iOS, BIAB for Windows 2020 UltraPAK, Xtra Styles packs 6-9, Windows 10 Lenovo PC, Kontakt Player, SpitFire LABS, SampleTank 4 CS, some Soundfonts
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591 |
Ed Z: You have received some good comments in this thread already. In particular, Tangmo's suggestions seem to address your intention, comping chords outside the box -- elementary for the Berklee graduate.
I'd like to create some jazz or blues songs with some colorful chord combinations, not just basic minor, major and 7th triads - adding 13ths and 11ths and passing chords, etc.
My own improv has benefitted from learning and playing the classic melodies from The Hymnal, single noting and chord comping from the Hal Leonard Fake Book Series, but really, any basic instruction can be used. The academic approach is to address what's called The Elements of Composition, shown here, but any source will do. Elements of Composition I can see from your Soundcloud that your tastes run to jazz. Whether it is classic jazz or not is debatable -- New Orleans style, Big Band, Bessie Smith, are considered the roots, are they not? Anyway, your tracks seem more modern and abstract, which is in line, I think, with your intentions. With your recorded tracks playing, try this practice: (1) Comp the chords in a couple of positions for a verse or two, using triads if it helps. (2) Play the melody in bass , middle, and high positions, (C2, C3, C4, for example)... (3) Comp with abbreviated chords and whole notes. Great for playing around and finding new voicings that sound good to you. (4) Experiment around with imrovised melodies. It is a great help to have a lead sheet with staffs for this. If you are playing Cmaj and your landing note will be F, substitute an A, try it, on like that. Or a D or B for the change to Gmaj. ---------------------- The same thing goes for other elements, such as Rhythm and Harmony. This way, you are engaged in the writing process, not trying to perfect a cover. Just some thoughts.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 362
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 362 |
Thanks Ed. That's some really good specific advice. In your SoundCloud songs I hear a very rich blend of melody and harmony, and it really resonates, so I get what you're talking about.
Ed Z Soundcloud profile https://soundcloud.com/user-415064494BIAB user since 2019 iPad Mini, Garageband for iOS, BIAB for Windows 2020 UltraPAK, Xtra Styles packs 6-9, Windows 10 Lenovo PC, Kontakt Player, SpitFire LABS, SampleTank 4 CS, some Soundfonts
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591 |
You are welcome, EdZ; and, thank you for the encouragement -- always good to hear. Much of it just comes from the wish to keep the listeners on their toes. They get bored easily by repetition, even a little of it, especially with instrumentals.
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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