|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,910
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,910 |
In this day and age of even great singers undergoing pitch manipulation I found this article a good read. I have a decent ear for pitch but apparently not keen enough after reading this. We have three pitch editors (all included free with packages) including Melodyne and Logic Pro X’s editor but I’ve never used one on a vocal - due to my lack of pitch acuity I suppose  I do find them helpful to change a RT note here and there mostly to improve segues into vocals. But I can’t help but wonder what my perspective would be, if say, I was sensitive to +10 / -10 cents. In the spirit of full disclosure I’ll state that from some videos I’ve watched I feel that the soul of a vocal can be sucked out via some examples I’ve seen over the years. Your thoughts are appreciated. Interesting discussion here Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,459
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,459 |
I have very good 'ears' for intonation. This comes from long practice on the sax. The sax is not in tune with itself, each note requires a little more or less pressure on the reed to play it in tune. No two saxes, even the same make and model have the same intonation 'signature' and changing temperature changes the tuning of the horn.
This means my ear is always 'on the job'.
Does that mean I always play/sing in tune? Definitely not.
Sometimes a little sharp adds brightness and a little flat adds tension.
Example: When Otis Redding on "I've Been Loving You Too Long" sings the lyrics "You Walked Out" he hits the word Out flat and gradually pulls it up towards in tune. This adds the pain to the song. Auto-tune would be a great disservice there.
Sometimes the tuning should be more like 'just intonation' with another instrument or voice to blend better. In the equal temperament system, that would be considered out of tune.
Whether your vibrato is mostly above pitch, below pitch or centered around pitch is another decision to make in the context of the song you are playing, and the relation of that note to the rest of the song.
In the end, IMO the question should not be whether the note I'm playing should be in tune or not, but how my manipulation of that note influences the emotion I am trying to express while playing.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,910
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,910 |
Bob, that makes a lot of sense. We’ve always loved the sax and thought it to be much like the human voice. Janice bends notes around so much singing that she might cause an editor to crash
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,705
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,705 |
Yeah.... my sense of intonation is a curse. I can hear things out of tune that others can't.
There was a show on TV Saturday night honoring Mac Davis as a writer and I swear that every singer in the place was either sharp or flat from the band. I don't know which was more of an affront to my ears.... the sharp ones or the flat ones. Of course also in consideration, many of those singers on the show were stars 30 years ago and probably haven't sang much in the last decade or so...... cutting slack where it's probably due.
The cool thing about melodyne is that you don't have top rely on your ability to hear things that are off. It will show you the slightest deviation from the mean. I can look ahead and see things coming that I know are going to need fixing.
Used correctly, melodyne can actually help you become a better singer because it shows you what you're actually doing. Holding back, forcing, drifting.... etc.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
Perfect intonation often removes feel if you are only talking that +/- 10 cents Notes spoke of. However, when you get into Britney Spears levels of tone deafness, it is a must-have.
Musically, I will never forget what Victor Wooten once said at a clinic. "You are never more than a fret away from being on the right note. You can always slide your hand up or down and make it look intentional."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,413
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,413 |
Oh, 432 again.
I’ve worked in the studio doing mixes of my work with many great engineers. They consistently do not believe me at first when I identify notes that are out. They claim no one can distinguish pitch differences less than six cents. I can, and I’ve proven it to them.
Having said that, I rarely adjust a pitch of my own playing. As mentioned above, that can suck the life out of a performance. I play two instruments known for being very ‘out’ with themselves, flugelhorn and soprano sax (Notes is right). My general approach is to only adjust a note if it is at the end of a phrase and makes the start of the next phrase sound wrong.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,737
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,737 |
I am pretty sensitive to pitch. I am a horrible vocalist. Because of that I have tried to adjust things in Melodyne for example. Sometimes it helps but more often it causes more problems than it solves.
With such ready access to electronics that can read frequency values very accurately, perhaps more people are aware of things being off pitch.
Intonation is consistently problematic with guitars and I assume is a problem in all string instruments. It can be solved for the most part but that only normally happens in high quality guitars. My Tom Anderson guitars play pretty true all the way up the neck but they are pretty pricey.
I find a lot of pitch issues in real tracks across the range of instruments I have listen too.
Minor pitch issues plus or minus 10 cents don't bother me in vocals. They are readily apparent in brass and woodwinds to me. Also guitars. Lower frequency notes on bass guitar are hard for me to distinguish. Perhaps that is a result of some hearing loss....not sure.
On time and on pitch...more than a little important.
I have never listen to anything Janice has done that stood out as off pitch. She is a skilled vocalist with a very pleasant voice. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...lol
Cheers,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,109
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,109 |
I used to think I could sing until I got Melodyne and saw a visual representation of how close to the notes I wasn't. Very eye-opening.
Having said that.. I do sing. It has been my experience that some genres are more forgiving to a poor vocalist than others. I can't sing any James Taylor song, no matter how I transpose it... but my efforts on some rock and blues (if I get the key centered on my range) are passable to my ears.
And as Matt said, I think we tend to judge passing notes less critically than certain critical notes, such as the first note in a passage.
The possibility of sucking the life out of a performance with pitch correction is a real possibility... but it's equally possible (and I think quite common) to ruin a vocal by singing off pitch. I know people who pride themselves on never using pitch correction... but.. .I've heard them sing and IMO if they used a little help the performance would be less painful.
We tend to judge ourselves on the best we can do, but others tend to judge us on the worst they've seen/heard us do. Considering the fact that the same person might sing great on one day but badly on another day muddies the water in discussions like this.
Last edited by Pat Marr; 10/05/20 06:01 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
And at the crux of this topic is that even if you can hear pitch so purely that you can tell that +/- 10 cents, that doesn't necessarily mean you can sing better to overcome it. I am flat about 20 cents on any held note, but the passing tones to get to the flat part are pretty good.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,910
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,910 |
I've been experimenting since my original post with Logic Pro X's Flex Pitch. I can readily hear a +/- 10 cent change in a note when modifying it with the editor. And if I play a note with a 5 cent change against the original I can hear the beats or "wavering"...guess that's why I've never had an issue tuning a guitar. However, when I play a modified note vs original in the context of a full mix I cannot hear the difference. I suppose some of that is due to having one of the oldest set of ears on the forum Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics85,644
Posts794,006
Members39,945
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There are no members with birthdays on this day. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean