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I probably know the answer to this already, but I'm going to ask anyway in case someone knows of a plugin that can do the following:
I love the realtracks drums in BIAB, but in some cases I'm not crazy about the sounds - maybe the kick isn't big enough, or I don't like the snare sound, etc.
I'd love to be able to use the realtrack drums, but have something that would trigger a snare and/or kick to enhance what is there. I suspect that most software would get confused by the two-track mix of the entire kit and and there would be a lot of false triggers, but maybe some developer has figured out a work-around.
Probably an unreasonable ask, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
*before someone suggest that I should use EasyDrummer, SuperiorDrummer, etc. - I've tried that, but I find it really overwhelming and I haven' been at all pleased with the results I've come up with. Drums aren't my instrument, and I just don't have a good enough working knowledge of them to be good at it.*
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Since you are a Mac user, I'll assume that you use Logic (?).
There is a function in Logic that will map the drum transients (somehow) and allow you to add a snare sample to each of the snare hits (exactly matched timing) - or Kick if that is what you are after.
I am a Studio One user (Windows), so I am not familiar with the specifics, but Bud (of Janice & Bud) uses this function regularly and can explain it. If he does not see this thread you could PM him and ask...
Optionally - what I sometimes do - is simply drop a snare sample into another track in your DAW and add it everywhere the snare (in the RealDrum track) hits.
In my case, the snare will copy (duplicate any number of times) pretty close to the snare beat and then I expand the tracks significantly to move the sample to the exact timing. It takes about 30-40 minutes to do that - which some might find tedious, but you only have to do it once for a recording that will last for as long as you choose to keep it.
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thanks Floyd, that was exactly what I needed!
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I find that Logic drummer is an excellent tool (if, as Floyd says, you are using Logic). I am also assuming you have EZdrummer as you say you have used it.
I was intrigued by this question and tried out an idea. Here's my suggestion...
1. Load the BIAB drum track into Logic.
2. Open a Drummer track, line the start up with the BB drums, fill to the length of the song, and find a similar style from the drummer menu library.
3. In the Drummer Editor click 'Follow' then there is a drop down menu. Choose drums.
Logic drummer will now do a darn good job of following the BB drums. Surprisingly good!
4. In the track strip change the instrument to EZdrummer.
5. In EZdrummer open the mixer window and fade out all the drums you don't want. Let's say you just want the kick and snare - fade the kick and snare in to get the level you want.
Of course you can select whatever kit sounds best for the job.
(If you don't have EZdrummer, use one of the production kits in Logic which allow you to mix each drum on a separate track.)
Another thing to bear in mind is that Drummer always adds 8 bar sections so if you want 12 bar measures you need to cut one, join the 8 and 4 bars together and then copy and paste to the song length. Sometimes endings need some fiddly cutting and adjusting to get them right.
I'm glad you asked this question Roger. By looking into it I now have a really good hack that I will definitely be using in future.
I am a huge fan of Logic Drummer. It is so much quicker than pasting loops bar by bar and the variations available with the editor window makes it possible to vary so many parameters throughout the song. It is far easier than EZdrummer although I do use that for the quality of the instrument sounds. I usually build the drum track using Drummer and then (as I described above) change the instrument to an EZdrummer kit.
Last edited by Chris Dent; 06/24/20 07:41 PM.
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Mac users who don't have Logic can use Garageband to get the same effect as above.
In the editor, select follow - drums. Then turn 'fills' to zero and select the instruments you want by clicking on their icons to turn them off/on.
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Hi Roger, I am asking myself these questions too, and I found an interesting video on YT. As I expected the AI 'Tracker' function in Superior drummer 3, should be smart enough to recognize the various trancients from a stereo drummix on one track, and turn them after some tweaking, into seperate tracks with the different parts of the drumset. I will try do copy this workflow myself, and see what happens If I would do this with a BIAB drumtrack. I will post the result a little later this year. Here's the link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQEZeHwl91IRegards, Hans
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Chris,
Thanks a lot for the play by play instructions using Logic Pro X
That should be very helpful in stepping up the quality of my backing tracks.
I went to your Soundcloud account. I like your stuff.
biab2025(Mac) Latest Build
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Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram
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If you have a daw with a reasonably modular signal flow, you can use one of several different plugins that will trigger midi notes based on band passed transient signals. The one I’m most familiar with Is called KT Drum Trigger. About 15 years ago I used it to show how you could ‘beat box’ into a mic and have it trigger kick, snare and hi hat sounds
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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I worked with a BIAB realTracks song in Logic Yesterday.
I created a new drummer track & selected a drummer I liked.
Hit the Follow click box and had it follow BIAB real track.
Voila, I had a new track that was pretty good
You can easily convert a section of the Logic drummer track to midi within the drummer track.
You can also copy/convert the whole drummer track to midi:
1. Create a new software instrument track (SIT).
2. Copy Channel Strip settings from Logic Drummer track to new SIT.
3 Copy the actual drum part(s) from Logic Drummer track to SIT.
4. The new track will show up as midi. Tweak till your hearts content on the piano roll editor.
This second approach works great for a guy like me who is new to all this. Preserves the original track and I can copy over sections if I really muck one up.
For me it provides a significant enhancement to the BIAB drummer in Logic.
biab2025(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS (Latest)
Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11.2.2
Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers
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Each drum synth has it's own learning curve.
I was a big fan of Jamstix for a period of time. It had lots of cool options and a bunch of good sounding sampled kits. It did take a bit of time to learn it and then to create a track. Once I found Real Band and Real Drums, I haven't used it since.
I do however, feel your pain with the real drum tracks not always being quite what you want them to be. I'd love to see PG start splitting the real drums into multiple tracks to give us more control over the volume and tone of the various kit parts. Kick, snare, toms, cymbals, hats, would be a good start. With Jamstix, you have control over each individual kit part and ALL of it's parameters.
I have used something that Floyd mentioned. I have added a synth played kick and snare in a few of my tunes to give it that harder kick/punch and snare smack. Just drop a new track, insert the synth and adjust the levels and EQ.
BTW... I haven't used Jamstix in so long now, I'd have to go back and relearn it all over again. RD made me lazy and fat.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Many of the RealDrums include midi versions of those drums - you can export them in a MIDI file or using the Band-in-a-Box plugin. The drums that have notation are listed in the RealDrums picker starting with "Ntn" in the # column.
I would also love to see separate drum stems in future versions of BIAB, however there are some technical challenges with that. We would have to reprogram the Mixer and the BB Plugin to have separate channels for the additional drum tracks, your computers would have to be more powerful as there would be more tracks to deal with when generating and playing, and then we would have to account for the increase in disk space. The Audiophile Edition has around 76gb of Drums, and for every separate audio track we add it would likely increase by tens of gigabytes. At a very rough estimate, separate drum stems for kick/snare/overheads/toms/hats would add at least 200gb of extra files. Not saying this is impossible, but it's a technical issue we would have to work with given that we're already using 75% of a 2tb drive.
I work here
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Like Simon said, some RDs were recorded (I think) with MIDI kits, so the notation for these include all the MIDI data.
That's a really cool feature. Not on all RDs have this, but the ones that do have it may surprise you.
Of course you still need a decent drum synth to play and 'hear' it.
For some of these tracks, if you are a savvy user, you can also go into the raw RD track, and at the end of the file you will often find individual drum hits, which can be very helpful in multiple ways (especially when combined with the MIDI data);
you can build a new drum synth patch with these 'samples' and have the same sound drum but triggered by MIDI,
you can use a different drum synth with just the MIDI
or you can copy various drum hits from that raw RD track as audio snippets, and then paste them as needed.
All different ways to accomplish what you need.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Rharv - To my knowledge, the recordings were done with real drum kits, and the recordings were fed into a MIDI trigger software, which generates MIDI notes for each drum hit. Like you said, not all RD's have this yet, but many do.
Great trick with the individual drum hits! There may not be as much variety there as in a dedicated MIDI drum plugin, but it'd be great for editing your own grooves a bit.
I work here
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The BIG issue I've had with RealDrums of late, other than the frequent use of very clicky kick drums or excessive hihat level - both of which can be addressed by careful EQing, is a rather narrow stereo image. On my most recent track the cymbals were in the centre of the stereo image. This may be the eccentricity of an individual drummer but it's been the similar with the last couple of songs I've used in BIAB.
Using a stereo expander VST isn't a real solution as it's moves sounds into positions that may not be realistic. In most modern rock iterations a kit's L & R extremes are determined by the stereo overheads plus, occasionally, a wide tom spread.
If the RealDrum track had a notation as to the recording method used..."Recorderman", "Glyns Johns method" or using a BIAB determined nomenclature would be handy. Similarly I'd like guitar tracks described by the guitar type - or at least pick ups used as well as the regular info.
Now, I may seem picky, I am, but I've also used BIAB RealDrums in many situations where real, GOOD drummers are impressed - particularly as RealDrum tracks rarely suffer from over playing or unnatural patterns.
Last edited by rayc; 10/05/20 11:59 PM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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