I've been using the Piano Roll view recently to edit some songs that I recorded via the MIDI thru, using some Kontakt instruments. I've noticed that if I shorten or lengthen the note in Piano Roll it messes with the articulation (moving it left/right/up/down is OK) and I have not been able to find out where in the MIDI editing that would appear. Does it depend on the particulars of the MIDI programming for that instrument? Can BIAB reliably edit those types of articulations?
If this primarily a MIDI/Kontakt specific question and doesn't belong in this forum, please let me know.
Ed Z
Soundcloud profile https://soundcloud.com/user-415064494 BIAB user since 2019 iPad Mini, Garageband for iOS, BIAB for Windows 2020 UltraPAK, Xtra Styles packs 6-9, Windows 10 Lenovo PC, Kontakt Player, SpitFire LABS, SampleTank 4 CS, some Soundfonts
I'm not familiar with Kontakt, so I can't address questions specific to it. I just have one suggestion that might help, though. Do you ever edit your instruments using the Event List Editor? That gives you a pretty fine control over them, so you might give that a try. You have control over the instrument selected, timing, expressions, pitch, and volume -- or rather velocity.
While I can't help you with your problem as I do no editing in BiaB I can tell you that does not happen when editing a Kontakt's note's length in my DAW, Studio One Pro 5.
But what exactly do you mean by articulation? If for instance if you are using a sound with a slow attack, say like a violin, and you move the start of said note then yes the violin will play at a different time.
Or are you referring to key switch notes?
More information would be helpful.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Thanks Mario. In this particular case, there is a fade on the guitar note, which you can distinctly hear. When I shorten the note in the piano roll, it either removes that fade or truncates it so that the velocity remains more or less constant. I'm relatively new to working with guitar synth, and very new to working with Kontakt instruments. I'm familiar with general MIDI concepts including the control functions, velocity and portamento and so forth, but I've really only adjusted the basic ones so far. It's not clear what function would be controlling the fade. I hope my rough description is enough to clarify the question.
If it's a matter of working in another DAW I have Cakewalk - my budget is limited - and I can try manipulating it over there. My only concern on editing outside of BIAB is that I have not done an export from BIAB of a full set of tracks, so that's another learning project for me. That's a completely different topic, so I won't pursue that in this thread, but if you or others think that's the best way to avoid idiosyncrasies of editing MIDI in BIAB, then I'll certainly take it under advisement.
Ed Z
Soundcloud profile https://soundcloud.com/user-415064494 BIAB user since 2019 iPad Mini, Garageband for iOS, BIAB for Windows 2020 UltraPAK, Xtra Styles packs 6-9, Windows 10 Lenovo PC, Kontakt Player, SpitFire LABS, SampleTank 4 CS, some Soundfonts
I don't know if this assists, but in the Piano Roll editor, you can choose several values to change under the Control option as shown. Is one of the articulations you are referring to available in that list?
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
Thanks Mario. In this particular case, there is a fade on the guitar note, which you can distinctly hear. When I shorten the note in the piano roll, it either removes that fade or truncates it so that the velocity remains more or less constant. I'm relatively new to working with guitar synth, and very new to working with Kontakt instruments. ..........
OK I see the problem. All acoustic emulations have a natural decay/fade to them; this also includes electric guitars, basses, violins, etc also. That is you play a note and it gets quieter with time. So when you shorten a note you are actually cutting off the decay. A way around this issue is with volume automation; that is using volume to create your own decay/fade. I would use expression, CC11, for this.
For the record velocity only effects the initial volume, timbre and/or other things. Fades are created with volume, either the volume changes of the patch/preset or your automation volume.
I hope this helps and good luck.
PS - If you need any help feel free to ask.
Last edited by MarioD; 10/16/2012:02 PM.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Thanks Mario, Videotrack and Cooltouch. I've got a solution. As you explained, I can use MIDI CC 11 (Expression) to control the volume within the duration of the note, and that appears to work just fine. I've attached a screenshot of how I would use it on a particular note. I discovered by accident that you can just drag the mouse cursor across a range it will create a descending line.
I'm still a but puzzled though because I tried to determine using both MIDI monitor and the Step Edit feature in the Edit Melody Track option to find out what MIDI command was providing the fading effect on the guitar notes, but was unable to. The MIDI monitor seems particularly problematic on my system - it appears to drop a lot of events, even when I filter just one channel. That may be a topic for another post.
In any case, thanks much gentlemen. I have a solid solution.
Ed Z
Soundcloud profile https://soundcloud.com/user-415064494 BIAB user since 2019 iPad Mini, Garageband for iOS, BIAB for Windows 2020 UltraPAK, Xtra Styles packs 6-9, Windows 10 Lenovo PC, Kontakt Player, SpitFire LABS, SampleTank 4 CS, some Soundfonts
Fantastic. Thanks for letting us know that this resolved for you. Sorry, I should have also mentioned that you can use the mouse in the lower section to create the desired events.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
I'm still a but puzzled though because I tried to determine using both MIDI monitor and the Step Edit feature in the Edit Melody Track option to find out what MIDI command was providing the fading effect on the guitar notes, but was unable to. The MIDI monitor seems particularly problematic on my system - it appears to drop a lot of events, even when I filter just one channel. That may be a topic for another post.
In any case, thanks much gentlemen. I have a solid solution.
I'm glad that you have it working.
The MIDI monitor and Step Edit will not tell you how the instrument fades. That information is contained in the Kontakt patch. At this stage of your learning curve I would not attempt to do that.
But for your information inside Kontakt are a bunch of things that you can change. For your guitar fade that would be on a ADSR (Attack-Delay-Sustain_Release) curve. But this would be a global change and every note would have the same curve. You could of course save that changed patch under a different name and use both patches but it is much easier to use CC11.
I hope that helps.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Hey Ed, it's good to read you have Cakewalk -- the best free DAW around, by a wide margin. Actually, I do all my editing anymore in cakewalk, although I consider myself to be a Cakewalk user and not an expert. For any sort of volume adjustments, I use the piano roll, and assign a Volume control to the track. Then I can use my mouse to "paint" any sort of volume alterations I wish. Works quite well for my needs.
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