and which do you prefer?...I only have experience with EL34's until recently when I got a Laney GH100L and the Laney takes both (with a switch for auto-biasing)-
I the 6L6's sound like they have more umph (low end) while the EL34's like to scream more to my ears...
what's the difference? which do you prefer and why?[/size]
Well, you kind of described the difference as oomph vs scream. Which fits your music genre the best? MOST of the guitar players I know all say 6L6 but that may just be a "because I have always used them because everybody says so" kind of thing. I preferred solid state because I didn't want to have to deal with heat and ventilation concerns, but it's been a long time since I was a guitar player too.
I've personally found that 6L6 vs EL34 made fairly little difference. Toss 6L6's into a Marshall and it'll still sound like a Marshall - heck, many of their amps came with 6L6's from the factory!
That's not to say there are no differences, just that the differences are subtle and overshadowed by everything else in the amp. Typically 6L6 has a more solid bottom end and EL34 has more midrange harmonics, but again the amp has more to do with that. My most prized amplifier in my collection is an original Rivera Knucklehead 55. Stock it came with EL34's, but it has fat bass and the most beautiful clean Fender chime I've ever heard, even compared to actual Fenders (no doubt because Paul Rivera worked at Fender for years).
One big upshot with 6L6's is they use less heater current, so your transformers might run a little cooler. Might not be noticeable on your amp, but on an old Carvin amp I have it's much cooler.
You might get more of a tonal shift by changing preamp tubes. Long plate vs short plate, JJ vs Sovtek, 12AX7 vs 12AT7 vs 12AU7 vs 5751. Generally you can toss them in without having to change anything else.
ANYTHING you get from that amp with whatever configuration, so long as you're not in High gain mode, will sound 100% better than the "rock" clips in BIAB. Just stay away from sizzle and fizz and effects. Ue the amp for it's excellent tonal options.
Last edited by rayc; 09/30/2011:23 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
All the years I played and used tube amps, I have really never noticed much of a difference. I did the whole thing about buying matched pairs and changing the pre's out to Soviet, or whatever the fad seemed to be at the time. Never really could tell much of a difference between them.
I think it's kind of like the feeling you get that your car is running better because you just washed and polished it. It's not really, but it just seems that way.
That's not to say that tubes don't wear out and that replacing worn out tubes with new ones won't make any difference.... because it will. But if you have good tubes to start with, you really have to have keen ears to hear a difference and I can guarantee you that the crowd from Friday night that comes back Saturday night isn't going to be setting there sipping their drinks saying.... you know, I swear his guitar amp sounds a bit more boomy in the low end than it did last night, I'll bet he swapped his preamp tubes to those new Sovtecs.
Unless you mention it to the band... I doubt that they would realize it either.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
This is a schematic to your amp. It looks to me the bias should work well enough, but to get max performance would require a electronics guy to bias the amp. Every 6L6 or EL34 is slightly different and the bias on your amp is only adjustable by changing out resistors. Flipping the switch puts fixed bias resisters in the circuit.
The actual technical answer to your question is very complex, and very difficult to understand foe anyone. Go look at the data sheets on 6L6 tubes. Google EL34 data sheets and 6L6 data sheets. JJ Electronics has pretty good data sheets.
I build custom amps and have worked on Laney amps but not the model you have.
Personal Highly subjective answer...I generally like the sound of 6L6's No one but you can say what you like!
Cheers,
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 10/02/2002:47 AM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
Adding to what Planobilly said about biasing the amp - most of these more modern fixed-bias type amps tend to keep the bias on the colder side. That's generally good from a tube longevity standpoint, but many people think biasing the tubes hotter sounds better. I personally prefer colder bias on my amps, as I feel the bottom end is a bit more solid and pronounced, but ymmv.
and which do you prefer?...I only have experience with EL34's until recently when I got a Laney GH100L and the Laney takes both (with a switch for auto-biasing)-
I the 6L6's sound like they have more umph (low end) while the EL34's like to scream more to my ears...
what's the difference? which do you prefer and why?[/size]
One post only…
Who cares?
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
For my style of playing tubes of any kind no longer matter. Amp modelling is so good today that the difference is wasted on me and most everyone I play for.
If I'm playing a telecaster, the new Fender Tone master amps sound excellent. Real nice clean sound. Reverb is good I find my pickup selection (Joe Barden's for me) much more important than the amp. The Barden's crackle the way I like and the breakup is there at volume The tonemaster weighs half what a tube based deluxe reverb does. That matters to my 62 year old back.
For a humbucker based guitar (for me a prs cs24) i normally play the tonemaster or a Quilter. I like the breakup on the Fender but the Quilter has a good sound also.
I've been waiting for decades for solid state modelling amps to do a good enough job to replace my tube amp. That time has arrived I sold my last Vibrolux 6 months ago. Don't miss it. Happy to get a grand for an amp I paid $300 for.
Tube amps are dead..... Long Live Tube Amps !!!!
biab2025(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11.2.2 Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers
For my style of playing tubes of any kind no longer matter. Amp modelling is so good today that the difference is wasted on me and most everyone I play for.
If I'm playing a telecaster, the new Fender Tone master amps sound excellent. Real nice clean sound. Reverb is good I find my pickup selection (Joe Barden's for me) much more important than the amp. The Barden's crackle the way I like and the breakup is there at volume The tonemaster weighs half what a tube based deluxe reverb does. That matters to my 62 year old back.
For a humbucker based guitar (for me a prs cs24) i normally play the tonemaster or a Quilter. I like the breakup on the Fender but the Quilter has a good sound also.
I've been waiting for decades for solid state modelling amps to do a good enough job to replace my tube amp. That time has arrived I sold my last Vibrolux 6 months ago. Don't miss it. Happy to get a grand for an amp I paid $300 for.
Tube amps are dead..... Long Live Tube Amps !!!!
I quite like the Boss Katana amps. Lightweight, loud, and sound fantastic! I'd personally get the 100 watt version as a minimum for gigging.
That said, you'll never get me to give up my Rivera or my Carvins.
I have been using solid state amps for years starting with a Carvin FR1200 amp. I like the clean sound you get with them and in the wedding band business that was important. The Carvin had a distortion option on it for those rock sounds.
Too bad that Carvin amps/sound equipment went out of business. Toured the world with their gear. Everything I ever bought from them still works as new even if it no longer looks it.
Well… except for this guy (bass works great, though)
Carvin LB85 with split flame koa top.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
Too bad that Carvin amps/sound equipment went out of business. ....................
Yes, it is too bad they went out of business as they made some great equipment. Here is a picture from the past with me and my Carvin guitar and amp:
It's such a shame. I have a 1990-ish Carvin X100B head (the carpet-covered version), and it's probably my second most used amp. Also have a mid 90's MTS3212, which was the first tube amp I ever rebuilt - it had some PCB damage at the phase inverter, which caused squealing. Sounds great, even with diode clipping on the drive channel, and has an excellent reverb!
Conversations about the various types of amps can and do go on forever. My recommendation is to play what sounds good to you.
Solid state amps have come light years from the first transistor amps.
In a conversation with Bruce Zinky once, I ask him if a solid state amp could be made to sound like a tube amp. His answer was yes, if you wanted to spend enough money.
One thing I like about tube amps is their repairability. Solid state amps in general, are designed to be less expensive and disposable. Some repair parts for solid state amps are no longer manufactured and symply don't exist.
Someone can bring a tube amp to me and I can change the way it sounds without much difficulty. Doing the same thing with a solid state amp is much more difficult. Most if not all the "boutique" amps I have ever seen were tube.
There has always been an unending search for "tone". I don't see tube amps going away anytime soon.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
Mario, cool photo. Still have the double neck? Did your right sleeve ever catch any of the hardware mounted on the switch plate between the necks?
No I do not have that guitar. And no my sleeve never caught switch. What I liked about that guitar is that I could have both necks active at the same time. I use to play Dueling Banjos go back and forth between the necks. But the guitar was very heavy and almost impossible to play sitting down do to the shape of the body. I traded it in on my guitar MIDI controller.
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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