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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196 |
I have been running SONAR in ASIO mode and B&B in MME mode together to do drag and drop (D&D) and this works fine. Today I switched B&B from MME to ASIO (No real good reason to do this for D&D but done merely as an experiment).
If B&B is loaded first, the program works OK but then loading SONAR (with ASIO) at the same time, SONAR says it can’t find the UA-4FX audio interface. If I run SONAR (with ASIO) first things are OK but then trying to run B&B with ASIO at the same time I get an invalid pointer error in B&B and access violation as follows:
“Exception EInvalid Pointers in module bbw.exe at 00004FB9”
and then
“Access violation at address 100025B9 in module Rdaw1061.dll”
Switching B&B back to MME and running simultaneously things are sweet.
Note that running both in MME mode at the same time also works (I was using this before switching SONAR to ASIO to delete the guitar input latency.)
Re F
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
I believe only one program can access an ASIO driver at a time. Sonar probably has some setting on the page where you select the drivers to do something like "release ASIO drivers in background." This is the language Cubase uses. Then when Cubase is not longer the active window, i.e., you have BIAB or another application on top and 'open,' the drivers will be released to the 'on top' application. Most DAWs have some setting that performs this function.
However, I have no idea whether or not BIAB also has a setting for the capacity to release the driver back to Sonar, when Sonar has the active window.
Prado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,449
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Joined: Jul 2000
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As I recall, SONAR does have such a setting, to release drivers, but I don't think it's going to work anyway with two applications trying to use ASIO drivers on the same device. That is a known design of ASIO. Suggest you go back to the way it worked before.
[Edit. In SONAR 8.5, it's Options, Audio, checkbox for Share Drivers with Other Programs]
Last edited by Matt Finley; 02/24/10 05:42 PM.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
Hi Matt,
"... two applications trying to use ASIO drivers on the same device."
Meaning that BIAB does not have a setting to 'release drivers in background?'
Prado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,449
Veteran
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Veteran
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I don't know of one, but it doesn't matter with ASIO.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196 |
Tried the share drivers option in SONAR but this doesn't have any effect.
Anyway clearly something to avoid when using drag and drop.
Re F
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
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This discussion comes back and back. There is almost no reason to use ASIO drivers anywhere. Unless you have some keyboard and are trying to play a softsynth.
Just say no.
MME. Everywhere.
A more techy guy than me will jump in, but I lost a week of my life thinking I somehow needed asio drivers when it was like I need an unneeded root canal.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
FWIW ... to avoid semantic misunderstanding. Only one program can use ASIO at a time, but loaded programs that 'release' the ASIO driver when they are not the active window do, in that sense, share the driver.
It may be that most programs automatically release the drivers and only DAWs hold on to them. I routinely load Windows Media Player using system ASIO drivers while running Cubase, and which ever program is in the foreground plays just fine.
And yes, unless you are recording either midi or audio, ASIO drivers are unneccesary.
Still, many folks like to be able to play/ record a softsynth accompanied by tracks that are playing back in their DAW. Or like to write automation to recorded audio tracks. For these and other purposes the lowered latency of ASIO ... less the 10 msec on a powerful computer ... is critical.
Prado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196 |
Quote:
This discussion comes back and back. There is almost no reason to use ASIO drivers anywhere. Unless you have some keyboard and are trying to play a softsynth.
Just say no.
MME. Everywhere.
A more techy guy than me will jump in, but I lost a week of my life thinking I somehow needed asio drivers when it was like I need an unneeded root canal.
John see my post "B&B,SONAR and GS-201 tape echo" below. Clearly this does not work in my case if you need ASIO to stop delay (using MME) when a guitar is plugged into a audio interface. Thats why or at least one reason why ASIO was invented.
Cheers F
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 674
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 674 |
I just posted a reply to another thread about this same thing. ASIO2 and ASIO3 compliant host applications WILL share drivers with other apps. ASIO1 hosts will not. I am pretty certain that BB is not ASIO2 or 3 compliant.
ALSO, your soundcard drivers must ALSO be ASIO2 or 3 compliant in order for 2 hosts to be able to use ASIO at the same time.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507 |
Beagle, thanks for the clarifications on compliance level. That may be the key that cuts through some of these issues.
Do you happen to know where ASIO4ALL fits in? I understand it is not a true ASIO driver, but I'm wondering if it emulates the later specs.
Thanks, -Ron
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 674
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 674 |
Ron - ASIO4ALL is not an actual driver itself. In order to make ASIO4ALL clear, I'll need to try to explain on a little more basic level about soundcard drivers in general. There are several driver protocols. the most popular ones are MME, WDM and ASIO. MME and WDM are both Microsoft protocols. ASIO was developed by Steinberg but is now a consortium with other developers. each soundcard manufacturer must write different drivers for each of the protocols that it will be compliant with. for example, if my M-audio Delta 44 wants to be compliant with MME, WDM and ASIO, then it will write THREE different drivers, one for each protocol. Then the you choose in the host (BB in this case) which protocol driver to use by selecting that particular "driver mode." (in BB that's either MME or ASIO). that's just a pointer or a "switch" that tells the host which driver of the 3 (in the example above) to choose from. the other 2 drivers are not used by that host. so if a soundcard manufacturer decides that it is only going to write TWO drivers for everyone to use. And they decide that they will write their driver to be compliant with MME and WDM driver modes because that's what 99% of windows users will use anyway (audio guys like us are a small minority in the overall computer market). enter ASIO4ALL. ASIO4ALL is a WDM wrapper. what it does, is it allows the host to access ASIO protocols (and thereby bypassing the kernel) but it uses the soundcards' WDM drivers to do access the soundcard. basically it's an "interpreter" allowing WDM drivers to be used in ASIO mode in the host. That will allow the soundcard to have lower latency and other benefits from using ASIO driver mode, but it still accesses the WDM drivers written by the soundcard manufacturer. as far as it "emulating the later specs" - yes, the latest versions of ASIO4ALL are ASIO 2 compliant. I haven't used it in a long, long time, so I don't remember if they've updated it for ASIO3 compliance or not. however, at this time there are very few hosts which are ASIO3 compliant. Sonar is NOT ASIO3 compliant and the only one that I KNOW that's ASIO3 compliant is Cubase 5 (and the latest Nuendo and the latest other Stienberg softwares). Hope that's clear enough! 
Last edited by Beagle; 02/26/10 07:55 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507 |
Thank you Beagle! I knew ASIO4ALL was a "WDM wrapper," but not necessarily the implications.
So, for sake of understanding, IF BB were ASIO2 compliant, I could run it and Sonar simultaneously with the same sound card using ASIO4ALL, latest version, as long as the soundcard had a WDM driver installed. (Not that I'd want to for serious work. My 2496 has its own native ASIO driver. I was curious because I also have a soundblaster, with which I noodle at the desktop.)
-Thanks again. -Ron
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 674
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 674 |
Yes, in theory that should work. of course there's still a possibility that it won't work depending on if the ASIO4ALL didn't "interpret" the WDM soundcard drivers correctly to ASIO 2 format. they're supposed to - but I don't know enough about the "under the hood" stuff of ASIO4ALL to know if it will ALWAYS convert to ASIO2 compliance for every WDM driver.
but from what I understand that's the way it's SUPPOSED to work!
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