I've found that in Options/Preferences/Overrides, I can uncheck the "Vary Style in Middle Choruses" box if I want to change the way the style shifts during a song, but unfortunately this sets the song so that the way the Style plays in Choruses 1 and 3 is also played in Chorus 2. I would like to achieve just the opposite of this.
OK, full disclosure, I'm still using v2017 on my laptop because for now it doesn't have room for anything else. So if this is a feature that's been included in later versions, please just say that.
You've probably run into this before -- I have a lot. You're browsing through the styles and you find a number that are just, for lack of a better word, flat boring in the first Chorus. But then the song hits the second chorus and everything wakes up. The drums are getting into it and some instrumentation that's been laying out during the first chorus jumps in, and all of a sudden it's a pretty cool sounding Style. Then Chorus 3 hits and things go back to sleep. Kinda frustrating.
The workaround I've been using for this is I export the tracks into Cakewalk and then just cut and paste what I want. This works fine, but it would be nice if I could do this internally with BiaB. I'm curious if anyone else feels similarly.
If I'm understanding correctly, you can probably achieve something similar if you unfold the song to be one long chorus, and then use type B part markers (green) throughout the entire song.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Just another follow-up. I got to thinking about this. My original request was how to expand the second chorus to the whole song. Part B is not the same as what happens typically with a second chorus in a three chorus song. I've verified this. So I'm kinda back to my original question. Now, in most cases, Part B can suffice, but sometimes what happens in the 2nd chorus is nice and needs to be followed up on. I don't see an answer to this given the way BiaB is structured. I think the easiest way for me to expand the second chorus, if indeed I prefer it over Part B, is just to copy and paste inside full-blown DAW software, like Cakewalk. Simple, easy, effective. But it would be nice to keep everything inside BiaB.
Why not unfold the song? I always have the number of choruses set to 1. That way I can have any configuration I want such as having different chords in sections, different number of measures in a section, different styles and versions (A-B-etc), etc anyplace. YMMV
{edit} The only problem you may have is if you have over 255 measures.
Last edited by MarioD; 11/08/2006:17 AM.
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Yes, but by setting your choruses to 1, you'll never have the variation that occurs in the second chorus. I've even confirmed that, in a song with two choruses, the second chorus variation doesn't occur. A song needs a minimum of three choruses in order for the second chorus variation to occur. That's because the program is set up to provide the variation in a middle chorus. Inserting different styles and Part B's just skirts around the issue. It may work brilliantly constructing a piece of music this way, but it doesn't change that simple fact.
I have unfolded songs before, but I did so because I had a complex melody that never repeated. Otherwise, I see little point when I can cut and combine stuff in Cakewalk.
Speaking of multiple styles, here's another little trick I do with cakewalk. I will import a tune multiple times into cakewalk, each occurrence set to a different BiaB style. Then I will pick and choose instruments from the various styles and assemble my own style from them. I've been able to pull off some pretty remarkable stuff doing this. I've also been able to grow my number of BiaB instruments from five or six to fifteen, twenty, or more where I'll usually change out the instrumentation patches just so things don't sound monotonous. Not all playing at once, of course, but using them interleaved. Often I will modify the notation so that it all works together. Works very well.
I have yet to compose a piece of music that has more than 200 measures, much less 255. So this isn't something that I'd be worried about just yet.
To give extra emphasis, consider not just using B type part markers, but intersperse A type part markers is parts immediately before a B type part marker. The part markers generally introduce a fill on the preceding bar, and changing from a type A to a type B might contribute to the desired effect.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Yes, this is another way to cleverly modify a style. But often in a second chorus, it's not just drum fills, it's the way various instruments are played. For example, in Chorus one, a piano part might be laying out mostly, hitting the occasional chord, where in the Second Chorus, the arrangement is much fuller. Or, another example, you'll often see an instrument that lays out entirely in CHorus one, but which comes to life in Chorus two. I don't think part markers would make a difference with something like this.
<< Yes, but by setting your choruses to 1, you'll never have the variation that occurs in the second chorus. I've even confirmed that, in a song with two choruses, the second chorus variation doesn't occur. A song needs a minimum of three choruses in order for the second chorus variation to occur. That's because the program is set up to provide the variation in a middle chorus. Inserting different styles and Part B's just skirts around the issue. It may work brilliantly constructing a piece of music this way, but it doesn't change that simple fact. >> << But often in a second chorus, it's not just drum fills, it's the way various instruments are played. For example, in Chorus one, a piano part might be laying out mostly, hitting the occasional chord, where in the Second Chorus, the arrangement is much fuller. Or, another example, you'll often see an instrument that lays out entirely in Chorus one, but which comes to life in Chorus two. I don't think part markers would make a difference with something like this. >>
I've confirmed this as well in the past.
<< I have yet to compose a piece of music that has more than 200 measures, much less 255. So this isn't something that I'd be worried about just yet. >>
Considering the 255 limit, if your project can be completed using less than 84 measures, you can repeat it 3 times and remain below the limit and then use that pleasing 2nd Chorus as your song. 84 X 3 = 252
<< Speaking of multiple styles, here's another little trick I do with cakewalk. I will import a tune multiple times into cakewalk, each occurrence set to a different BiaB style. Then I will pick and choose instruments from the various styles and assemble my own style from them. I've been able to pull off some pretty remarkable stuff doing this. I've also been able to grow my number of BiaB instruments from five or six to fifteen, twenty, or more where I'll usually change out the instrumentation patches just so things don't sound monotonous. Not all playing at once, of course, but using them interleaved. Often I will modify the notation so that it all works together. Works very well. >>
Programming with Multi Styles is something BIAB does really well and it's a feature that's been around for a long time. I'm reposting my comment to a discussion on a BIAB Facebook page that revolved around BIAB being only good for jamming, simple songs, and scratch ideas and that anything more complex requires exporting BIAB generated tracks over into a DAW.
I'll repeat to you what I stated in that discussion, that I don't suggest you need to change your current workflow or that anything you are doing is wrong in any way, but I'm sure you will be amazed with the speed and ease you can replicate what you're currently doing with assembling your own custom styles using Cakewalk and even more, entirely within BIAB. It's easy to create custom Multi Styles and any project can have up to 24 Part Markers, each with two variations. PG Music staff has also created RealStyles that use the same instruments but each style will add a different soloist instrument. Many variations can be found in the Campfire Styles. For instance, you can start with a style that offers only a strumming acoustic guitar or fingerpicked guitar, the next style offers those same guitars in their own style. The style after that adds a fiddle, another may replace the fiddle with a mandolin, then another replaces the mandolin with a dobro and so on. Part markers can be replaced in any measure and as many times as desired and each offers an A and B variation the same as the Blue and Green Part Markers we are all familiar with.
In an attempt to help and inspire BIAB users. I want to correct some misconceptions of the ease of programming BIAB and its prowess as an alternative to a DAW. The screen shot I've posted below is comprised of and executes four Styles, 20 Style changes, 8 guitar parts, some rhythm and two soloists, 2 saxophone soloists, 3 drum styles and 4 bass styles. I calculate it takes 35 individual tracks to generate and export before you would even begin to cut and paste the tracks and create your arrangement to replicate this single render BIAB Chord Chart in a DAW. It took about 3 minutes to write this Chord Chart, insert the part markers and generate. That's an impossible time to match with tracks exported from BIAB, opening and then importing them into a DAW and as stated, there's still all of the arranging of the tracks to do with a normal DAW workflow. There's some pre-Chord Chart preparation in auditioning the Styles, selecting soloists and the other individual instruments but all of that has to occur regardless of whether the song is rendered in BIAB or moved to a DAW. I'm not suggesting anyone should change any workflow you may be using, that's successful for you or that anything is wrong with what you're doing. All I'm saying is that BIAB can create a multi instrument, multi style, multi soloist complete song arrangement in a 3 minute programed, single first generation render. All this is done with the tools and techniques you use every day and on every project but just doing in a way you haven't learned yet. The three video links attached provide all of the information necessary to those that may not know how to save a RealStyle, understand and apply Part Markers and how to audition Styles and RealTrack instruments for a song project. Making Your Own RealStyle in Band-in-a-Box https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a813VaOUNZM Band-in-a-Box for Windows: Part Markers Overview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmcbwJDl1oA&t=146s Band in a Box "How To Get A Fuller Sound Tutorial" Henry Clarke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDjx_WMXwAs&t=71s
Yes, this is another way to cleverly modify a style. But often in a second chorus, it's not just drum fills, it's the way various instruments are played. For example, in Chorus one, a piano part might be laying out mostly, hitting the occasional chord, where in the Second Chorus, the arrangement is much fuller.. I don't think part markers would make a difference with something like this.
Incorrect, The B Section will always play up-beat compared to the A section. So setting a B part marker will always wake up the band in some fashion.
OK, color me impressed. It sure doesn't look like all that's going on just from looking at that image. I'm not following much of what you mention, so in my case I figure it would take me hours of study to finally manage to put together that piece in three minutes. Good to know, for sure, but for now, it's quicker for me to do it the way I've been doing it.
<< so in my case I figure it would take me hours of study to finally manage to put together that piece in three minutes. >>
Not really. You already know 'how' to do it but just didn't know before now it could be done. You know how to assign Part Markers and what Part Markers do. So after you decide what instruments you want in a Style, what soloists and fill instruments you want to add to the Style you've chosen or created, it's a simple matter of saving the Style variations as custom Styles that are used throughout your song by assigning and placing them to come in and out using Part Markers. If you want two (or more) instruments to play simultaneously, it's just the matter of saving a custom Style with all the additional instruments to play and when they play. You can use existing Styles without any modifications or modify every existing Style in any configuration you want.
<< It sure doesn't look like all that's going on just from looking at that image. >>
You're right. You're giving instructions to BIAB and it executes it all in the background.
I've have the same problem. I have to wait through several boring choruses until I get to the cool-sounding one. Also, contrary to what some people said here, not all the b sections are cool. You have to get through several of them to get to the variation you want. Now I make "throwaway" choruses that repeat enough times to get to the good one. I start the playback at the measure right after the throwaways.
Agree that this solution is not great, and it would also be nice to be able to hear all of the variations in the stylepicker.
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