reading on the net bout this topic. maybe an announcement this month ?? anyone got info. ?? processor speed etc etc. it would be interesting if a mac mini arm based was priced for budget buyers. 4 ghz processor plus ssd for 700 bucks say. with thunderbolt etc. would be a big sales item imho.
the problem is budget buyers can buy xeon desktops (top intel processor.) based refurbs with win 7 or 10 on , which a user can stuff in multiple ssd's for around 6 or 700 bucks. these xeons will run a slew of traks and plug ins . trouble is these powerfull xeon refurbs sell fast.
anyhoo is there an apple announcement in november ??
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/05/2007:20 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
We have one of those ARM development systems in the office (Mac Mini) and we have been doing some testing on it. Can't say a lot about it as I haven't used it myself, but from what I hear BB 2020 is working fine on it.
simon. respect and thanks for the reply. i fully understand if you can only give so much info out. (eg an NDA in place.) but my interest is "piqued". some q's. / metrics that interest me.
1.from totally cold boot, (not sleep mode), how long to boot to desktop in secs. 2. how long in secs to boot from the desktop into biab ? 3. how long in secs to boot from the desktop into apps like garageband and logic pro ? 4. assuming a biab song 3 and a half minutes long with every trak an RT (no plug ins.) how long to export the stereo song wav , once biab is instructed to do so. 5. is everything snappy and fluid ??
respect. oldmuso.
simon re dda console more respect lol.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/05/2011:19 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
pipeline. re arm macs. i'm just trying to keep an open mind. you make a valid point. i just wish apple would see the huge untapped market for affordable power machines. 10 ghz mini. lol.
my problem is i see these amazing xeon refurb deals that will blow the doors off for most project studios cos you can load them up with ssd's/ram etc. example. https://www.staples.ca/products/2980177-en-hp-refurbished-z440-workstation-gaming-desktop-35-ghz-intel-xeon-1630-v3-500-gb-hdd-256-gb-ssd-16-gb-ddr3-windows-10-pro 600 to 700 bucks. also hp and dell and lenovo have sometimes amazeing deals on refurb xeons and i7's etc on their web sites. this type of machine (as your a reaper/biab/rb user) will be superb for that daw combo, or any daw combo for little money for that matter. they also have 1 yr warranty often. just gotta test before buying. you prolly know the mainboards are "industrial quality "often , compared to normal retail fare. it amazes me that more pg users havent discovered these xeons (or i7's for that matter), and just go buy any old computer which often costs way more.
see my dilemma ??
btw. thanks for that link. interesting info. respect. oldmuso. ps pg should give you an award for your help on these forums.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/05/2002:38 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
pipeline. (your the man.) wait. are you saying that people are running mac os on those cheap refurb xeon beasts per your link ?? i was of the understanding people were doing that on new custom pc builds with expensive processors. (per GS forums.)
what is really odd is any refurb ive bought ive had no win problems with. my suspician is the people doing the refurb know their stuff. very fast cold boots also. that particular hp beast i linked to, i would replace the one non ssd drive with an ssd drive. so it had 2 ssd's. i think certain refurbs will take 4 ssd's, depending on config. that xeon has 8 usb 3 ports .
its amazeing. i'm seeing even under 200 buck i5 refurbs. perfectly good for running biab/rb/reaps as long as one dont go nuts with a slew of over the top cpu hogging plug ins. ie 250 traks, 250 plug ins lol.
i do like the mac mini. its cute. like the PI. i'd just like to know some performance metrics. whats your rig ?(i7/ssd ?)
btw i was reading up on slate digital. new interface, custom chip engineering ? one millisecond latency ? kinda knocked me for six. but outta my budget. it seems more sub 3 ms interfaces are starting to come out ? good times coming. whats your read on usb4 ?? wicked transfer speed.
best. oldmuso.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/06/2002:27 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
i5 SSD 16GB SSD makes the main difference. Refurbished are fine, plenty of room in that for more drives, you can multiboot any OS on it. That will be fine for Biab.
simon. respect and thanks for the reply. i fully understand if you can only give so much info out. (eg an NDA in place.) but my interest is "piqued". some q's. / metrics that interest me.
1.from totally cold boot, (not sleep mode), how long to boot to desktop in secs. 2. how long in secs to boot from the desktop into biab ? 3. how long in secs to boot from the desktop into apps like garageband and logic pro ? 4. assuming a biab song 3 and a half minutes long with every trak an RT (no plug ins.) how long to export the stereo song wav , once biab is instructed to do so. 5. is everything snappy and fluid ??
respect. oldmuso.
I can't comment at all, because I haven't used it at all myself. There are a few benchmarks floating around though: https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/mac/apple-arm-powered-mac-mini-benchmark-developers/ A thing to keep in mind though is that since it's an ARM chip, any existing apps that aren't developed for ARM are gonna be running through Rosetta 2, and that can slow things down (much like Rosetta when Apple moved from PPC to Intel) as now you're having to emulate a CISC architecture on a RISC chip.
Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
simon re dda console more respect lol.
Word!
Regarding refurb computers, every refurb I've ever bought has been well worth it. Refurb Mac computers, refurb HP desktops and laptops, refurb Lenovo, always good, and much faster and cheaper than something brand new.
Regarding USB4 for audio interfaces, I don't believe it's necessary. Companies have made sub-3ms interfaces on USB2 over a decade ago (Fireface UC as an example)! Certainly the higher data speed is good, but lets do the math - one channel at 24-bit 192khz is around 4.6mbps, and USB 2.0 is around 480mbps, so that's not an issue for a few dozen channels. Going further, at 480mbps a single 24-bit sample takes about 50 nanoseconds to transfer. USB 3.0 cuts those figures by 10, and USB 4.0 would cut it again by 8.
Realistically, you can expect USB2 to have a lot of overhead which can slow things down a little, but the big bottleneck with latency is always gonna be drivers and CPU.
simon. 1.as always spot on. nice to meet a kindred refurb spirit. cant beat them. 2.re dda. mic pre's. its fun to try and build ones own mic pre's. (on gearslutz is geekslutz forum. ) lots of vintage schems on net . i just stay away from tubes cos they scare me lol. for fun google the 5 dollar mic pre schematic. then go to gearslutz, put in 5 dollar mic pre in search. hilarious thread where it fooled some engrs in tests against expensive pre's. 3. usb4. yup good points.
best. oldmuso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
simon. 1.as always spot on. nice to meet a kindred refurb spirit. cant beat them. 2.re dda. mic pre's. its fun to try and build ones own mic pre's. (on gearslutz is geekslutz forum. ) lots of vintage schems on net . i just stay away from tubes cos they scare me lol. for fun google the 5 dollar mic pre schematic. then go to gearslutz, put in 5 dollar mic pre in search. hilarious thread where it fooled some engrs in tests against expensive pre's. 3. usb4. yup good points.
best. oldmuso.
The DDA mic pre uses nearly the same chip as the 5-dollar mic pre (I think the INA217 or similar), just with a bit more filtering and a good power supply (the PSU is in my rack and does all the AC-DC conversion so the board doesn't have any 60hz AC anywhere near it).
I actually built a handful of the 5-dollar mic preamps (with the SSM2019 chip rather than the INA217, but similar enough), but rather than running from a stack of 9v batteries I built some beefy +-15v power supplies and added a switchable pad and high pass - then built them into a couple shielded enclosures (shielded with foil tape on the inside - added nearly 20db noise reduction), and eventually rackmounted a stereo pair with a fat toroidal power transformer.
We put the 4 of them up against everything we had in the studio (which included a pair of API 512C, an LA-610 MKii, an Avalon 737, a Drawmer 1960, a TL Audio CL-1, and the preamps in an SSL Duality) and - there was no winner. They were all equally good. Popular vote were that my slightly-more-than-five-dollar preamps were the most similar to the Avalon, interestingly enough!
simon. holy moly. i used to do diy. my wife says "do the dishes" lol. uber nice. yeh the thing that drove me nuts was the bi polar op amp power supplies. i think there are chips to do that now. ps did you see my latency thread and the fact slate digital under 1ms ??. outside my budget. best. oldmuso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
Thanks! The power supplies I designed for these are a fairly standard dual linear supply, from a centre tapped transformer, 7815 and 7915 regulators and an LM317 for +48v. Nothing too fancy, just trying to make them as clean as possible without introducing any switching noise. I measured EIN at around -120db, which is similar to the aforementioned Avalons and APIs.
Just saw your thread about latency, I'll have a proper look tomorrow.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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