Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#622591 11/10/20 08:36 AM
Songwriting
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785
Journeyman
OP Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785
Yeah, I know I am going to stir the pot here again. I am a believer that song lyrics should be copyrighted, but, I dont think melodies should be. Take tunes out of the copyright equation and we would have real original music all over the place again on radio. Just my 2 bits and I am sure I am in the minority here. Cliff

Songwriting
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
Yep would make a very interesting world indeed 1000 songs different lyrics, but same melody.

Think of all the time you would save playing an instrument just know the one melody and when people hear it, they could immediately try to guess what song it is from the 100's with the same melody but different lyrics.

smile

Last edited by musiclover; 11/10/20 08:55 AM.

Musiclover

My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2025, Cubase 14, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use smile
Songwriting
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785
Journeyman
OP Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785
True, but, many songs are that way now, country songs of the 40's and 50's were notorious for that and no one listening seemed to mind, because, the songs became different themes, same tune.

Songwriting
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785
Journeyman
OP Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785
Most songs would not be completely copied even with no copyright, just parts pieced together much like now.

Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,057
Veteran
Online Happy
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,057
With so few ways for composers to make a living now, you would remove one?


BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Songwriting
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591
E
Expert
Offline
Expert
E
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591
At one time, composers and producers were not nearly as obsessed with copyright as we are now. Heck, orchestral music has places having whole lines copied and thought of as paying tribute -- sometimes twice or three times in a symphony.
A lot of water under the bridge between then and now. I've heard of suits where the plaintiff's case was based on "sounds too much like." The upside of that is most of the songs heard on the radio today, we don't even want to sound like.


Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use)
https://www.Rumble.com/edshaw
Biab for WIN 2020 -- Win 10 64bit -- Reaper/Audacity
Zoom R-16 -- Tascam DP-03-SD -- SoundTap -- Crescendo --
Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,057
Veteran
Online Happy
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,057
And if radio airplay is the goal, that’s one sure way the composers don’t get paid (in the USA, anyway). Someone else is making the money.


BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Songwriting
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,330
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,330
Why would the melody be less copyrightable than the lyrics?
I think that musically, the melody is even more important than the lyrics.


BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Songwriting
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,275
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,275
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Why would the melody be less copyrightable than the lyrics?
I think that musically, the melody is even more important than the lyrics.


Exactly!

What about instrumentals? They should not be copyrighted?

Lyrics without a melody is called a poem isn't it?


I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!


64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
R
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
R
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
I'm struggling to figure out how that would work with someone like (for instance) James Taylor, who writes both. So he would copyright his lyric but not his music?
Sorry, that makes zero sense to me.

Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,057
Veteran
Online Happy
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,057
This subject shows that inconsistencies abound. Lyrics and music can be copyrighted but chord progressions can not. Terrestrial radio pays no royalties but satellite does (a pittance, but something).


BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 280
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 280
Surely lyrics without music are just poems?

Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
R
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
R
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
Terrestrial radio absolutely pays royalties to songwriters. That's where the big BMI/ASCAP checks come from.

What they DON'T do is pay the artist/record label a royalty, as is paid in most other countries. That's commonly called a "performance in a sound recording" royalty, and it's a non-starter in DC. I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

Last edited by Roger Brown; 11/11/20 07:31 AM.
Songwriting
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,330
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,330
Somehow the O/P's suggestion suggests that a composer can write a melody and anyone can use it freely by just adding their own the words? No. I don't think so. This has happened in the music business before and it has been problematic (think litigation). Even people have innocently used small riffs from children's songs written decades ago, and been sued, years later.

Think 'Down Under', written in 1980. Ten years after the 'Down Under' song was written, someone subsequently purchased the rights to another song, which was composed in 1932.

Twenty-seven years later the connection to a small riff contained in 'Down Under' was discovered in an answer to a question on a musical quiz program, and the songwriters to 'Down Under' were subsequently sued.

The outcome of the litigation actually resulted in a wonderful, talented musician eventually taking his own life.

So it's hard enough for composers to remain independent, because someone will crawl out of the woodwork to get you - given a chance.

Protection for composers is important. Don't give anyone an opportunity to take advantage. I wouldn't go there, ever.


BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Songwriting
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,414
PG Music Staff
Offline
PG Music Staff
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,414
Interesting topic for discussion - I do think the whole copyright thing has gotten a bit out of hand. I've heard of the side-by-sides of cases and fail to hear it. When you start suing over a song's groove and feel...really?


Cheers,
Deryk
Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,377
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,377
Quote:
Yeah, I know I am going to stir the pot here again. I am a believer that song lyrics should be copyrighted, but, I dont think melodies should be. Take tunes out of the copyright equation and we would have real original music all over the place again on radio. Just my 2 bits and I am sure I am in the minority here. Cliff



Well.... without going off the deep end.... It doesn't matter what anyone "believes" to be the case.... there are laws that supersede those "beliefs".


The more appropriate question would be ...Do you subscribe to your own beliefs? Do you place your music into the public domain from the very start?


Personally, I don't copyright the songs and cues I write. No one is out there waiting for me to write something and steal it. It is, however, still protected by the copyright laws of the USA.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Songwriting
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785
Journeyman
OP Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785
Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
Quote:
Yeah, I know I am going to stir the pot here again. I am a believer that song lyrics should be copyrighted, but, I dont think melodies should be. Take tunes out of the copyright equation and we would have real original music all over the place again on radio. Just my 2 bits and I am sure I am in the minority here. Cliff



Well.... without going off the deep end.... It doesn't matter what anyone "believes" to be the case.... there are laws that supersede those "beliefs".


The more appropriate question would be ...Do you subscribe to your own beliefs? Do you place your music into the public domain from the very start?


Personally, I don't copyright the songs and cues I write. No one is out there waiting for me to write something and steal it. It is, however, still protected by the copyright laws of the USA.


Well, nothing I have ever written as far as the tune goes is a problem with me for someone else to use. The lyrics a different matter. Most blues songs have pretty much the same tune, that 's why we love to jam them. I feel sure most of my tunes are peices of something I have heard before, nothing brand new. I still think a song should be copyrighted, just not sure the tune should be held as original work.

Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
R
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
R
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
A "song" is music. Tune, melody - semantics really. As others have said, lyrics without music isn't a song, it's a lyric or a poem.

I do believe that infringement cases have gotten out of hand, and I absolutely do not subscribe to the notion that chord progessions or rhythmic 'feels' should be covered under copyright law, but the melody is absolutely something that should be copyrighted, and infringements on them should be protected.

As for blues, a great deal of it is in the public domain, and is fair game (for good or for bad).

Songwriting
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381
A song is an entity. It's a bit like a marriage in that way. Doubt it?

Listen to an instrumental version of "Yesterday" and tell me it's not an instrumental version of A SONG. The song is "Yesterday". Arrange it differently, reharmonize it, slow it down, speed it up, embellish the melody--it remains "Yesterday".

In addition, print the lyric out, and it is the LYRIC of "Yesterday".

It isn't the lyric, and it isn't the tune that wholly makes the song "Yesterday". It simply IS "Yesterday". And that song is what is protected under copyright, such as it is.


BIAB 2021 Audiophile. Windows 10 64bit. Songwriter, lyricist, composer(?) loving all styles. Some pre-BIAB music from Farfetched Tangmo Band's first CD. https://alonetone.com/tangmo/playlists/close-to-the-ground
Songwriting
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 732
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 732
Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
Quote:
Yeah, I know I am going to stir the pot here again. I am a believer that song lyrics should be copyrighted, but, I dont think melodies should be. Take tunes out of the copyright equation and we would have real original music all over the place again on radio. Just my 2 bits and I am sure I am in the minority here. Cliff



Well.... without going off the deep end.... It doesn't matter what anyone "believes" to be the case.... there are laws that supersede those "beliefs".


The more appropriate question would be ...Do you subscribe to your own beliefs? Do you place your music into the public domain from the very start?


Personally, I don't copyright the songs and cues I write. No one is out there waiting for me to write something and steal it. It is, however, still protected by the copyright laws of the USA.



Yes you are right. As soon as you create a new piece of music the copyright is established. Whether you register it or not is up to you. The US Govt. charges way to much for us "normal" people to pay for every piece we create but it does not stop the law from protecting it. Just makes it harder to prove if we had to. Not that anybody is stealing anything I write either.


My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Andrew - PG Music, PeterGannon 

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!

We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!

Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!

Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.

Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles

Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)

And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.

You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.

Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!

The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!

Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!

With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!

These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!

This Free Bonus PAK includes:

  • The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK: -For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles. -For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles. -For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
  • Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
  • Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
  • Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
  • Playable RealTracks Set 4
  • RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
  • SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
  • 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.

Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:

  • 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
  • FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
  • Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
  • Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
  • Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
  • RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe

Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!

Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!

Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins

Join the conversation on our forum.

Forum Statistics
Forums58
Topics84,388
Posts778,585
Members39,643
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
Newest Members
Mami Yamal, arnold harris, Hyke, bestbushcraft, bokane65
39,643 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 151
DC Ron 116
WaoBand 109
rsdean 88
dcuny 85
Today's Birthdays
Joncofy, noixdesmers, StephenP
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5