Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783 |
Yeah, I know I am going to stir the pot here again. I am a believer that song lyrics should be copyrighted, but, I dont think melodies should be. Take tunes out of the copyright equation and we would have real original music all over the place again on radio. Just my 2 bits and I am sure I am in the minority here. Cliff
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,854
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,854 |
Yep would make a very interesting world indeed 1000 songs different lyrics, but same melody. Think of all the time you would save playing an instrument just know the one melody and when people hear it, they could immediately try to guess what song it is from the 100's with the same melody but different lyrics.
Last edited by musiclover; 11/10/20 08:55 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783 |
True, but, many songs are that way now, country songs of the 40's and 50's were notorious for that and no one listening seemed to mind, because, the songs became different themes, same tune.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783 |
Most songs would not be completely copied even with no copyright, just parts pieced together much like now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,943
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,943 |
With so few ways for composers to make a living now, you would remove one?
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,564
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,564 |
At one time, composers and producers were not nearly as obsessed with copyright as we are now. Heck, orchestral music has places having whole lines copied and thought of as paying tribute -- sometimes twice or three times in a symphony. A lot of water under the bridge between then and now. I've heard of suits where the plaintiff's case was based on "sounds too much like." The upside of that is most of the songs heard on the radio today, we don't even want to sound like.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,943
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,943 |
And if radio airplay is the goal, that’s one sure way the composers don’t get paid (in the USA, anyway). Someone else is making the money.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,476
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,476 |
Why would the melody be less copyrightable than the lyrics? I think that musically, the melody is even more important than the lyrics.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,017
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,017 |
Why would the melody be less copyrightable than the lyrics? I think that musically, the melody is even more important than the lyrics. Exactly! What about instrumentals? They should not be copyrighted? Lyrics without a melody is called a poem isn't it?
My goal this weekend is to move just enough each day so that no one pokes me to see if I'm dead or not.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 251
Apprentice
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 251 |
I'm struggling to figure out how that would work with someone like (for instance) James Taylor, who writes both. So he would copyright his lyric but not his music? Sorry, that makes zero sense to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,943
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,943 |
This subject shows that inconsistencies abound. Lyrics and music can be copyrighted but chord progressions can not. Terrestrial radio pays no royalties but satellite does (a pittance, but something).
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 276
Apprentice
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 276 |
Surely lyrics without music are just poems?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 251
Apprentice
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 251 |
Terrestrial radio absolutely pays royalties to songwriters. That's where the big BMI/ASCAP checks come from.
What they DON'T do is pay the artist/record label a royalty, as is paid in most other countries. That's commonly called a "performance in a sound recording" royalty, and it's a non-starter in DC. I don't expect that to change anytime soon.
Last edited by Roger Brown; 11/11/20 07:31 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,476
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,476 |
Somehow the O/P's suggestion suggests that a composer can write a melody and anyone can use it freely by just adding their own the words? No. I don't think so. This has happened in the music business before and it has been problematic (think litigation). Even people have innocently used small riffs from children's songs written decades ago, and been sued, years later. Think 'Down Under', written in 1980. Ten years after the 'Down Under' song was written, someone subsequently purchased the rights to another song, which was composed in 1932. Twenty-seven years later the connection to a small riff contained in 'Down Under' was discovered in an answer to a question on a musical quiz program, and the songwriters to 'Down Under' were subsequently sued. The outcome of the litigation actually resulted in a wonderful, talented musician eventually taking his own life. So it's hard enough for composers to remain independent, because someone will crawl out of the woodwork to get you - given a chance. Protection for composers is important. Don't give anyone an opportunity to take advantage. I wouldn't go there, ever.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,414
PG Music Staff
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,414 |
Interesting topic for discussion - I do think the whole copyright thing has gotten a bit out of hand. I've heard of the side-by-sides of cases and fail to hear it. When you start suing over a song's groove and feel...really?
Cheers, Deryk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,407
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,407 |
Yeah, I know I am going to stir the pot here again. I am a believer that song lyrics should be copyrighted, but, I dont think melodies should be. Take tunes out of the copyright equation and we would have real original music all over the place again on radio. Just my 2 bits and I am sure I am in the minority here. Cliff Well.... without going off the deep end.... It doesn't matter what anyone "believes" to be the case.... there are laws that supersede those "beliefs". The more appropriate question would be ...Do you subscribe to your own beliefs? Do you place your music into the public domain from the very start? Personally, I don't copyright the songs and cues I write. No one is out there waiting for me to write something and steal it. It is, however, still protected by the copyright laws of the USA.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 783 |
Yeah, I know I am going to stir the pot here again. I am a believer that song lyrics should be copyrighted, but, I dont think melodies should be. Take tunes out of the copyright equation and we would have real original music all over the place again on radio. Just my 2 bits and I am sure I am in the minority here. Cliff Well.... without going off the deep end.... It doesn't matter what anyone "believes" to be the case.... there are laws that supersede those "beliefs". The more appropriate question would be ...Do you subscribe to your own beliefs? Do you place your music into the public domain from the very start? Personally, I don't copyright the songs and cues I write. No one is out there waiting for me to write something and steal it. It is, however, still protected by the copyright laws of the USA. Well, nothing I have ever written as far as the tune goes is a problem with me for someone else to use. The lyrics a different matter. Most blues songs have pretty much the same tune, that 's why we love to jam them. I feel sure most of my tunes are peices of something I have heard before, nothing brand new. I still think a song should be copyrighted, just not sure the tune should be held as original work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 251
Apprentice
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 251 |
A "song" is music. Tune, melody - semantics really. As others have said, lyrics without music isn't a song, it's a lyric or a poem.
I do believe that infringement cases have gotten out of hand, and I absolutely do not subscribe to the notion that chord progessions or rhythmic 'feels' should be covered under copyright law, but the melody is absolutely something that should be copyrighted, and infringements on them should be protected.
As for blues, a great deal of it is in the public domain, and is fair game (for good or for bad).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378 |
A song is an entity. It's a bit like a marriage in that way. Doubt it?
Listen to an instrumental version of "Yesterday" and tell me it's not an instrumental version of A SONG. The song is "Yesterday". Arrange it differently, reharmonize it, slow it down, speed it up, embellish the melody--it remains "Yesterday".
In addition, print the lyric out, and it is the LYRIC of "Yesterday".
It isn't the lyric, and it isn't the tune that wholly makes the song "Yesterday". It simply IS "Yesterday". And that song is what is protected under copyright, such as it is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 730
Journeyman
|
Journeyman
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 730 |
Yeah, I know I am going to stir the pot here again. I am a believer that song lyrics should be copyrighted, but, I dont think melodies should be. Take tunes out of the copyright equation and we would have real original music all over the place again on radio. Just my 2 bits and I am sure I am in the minority here. Cliff Well.... without going off the deep end.... It doesn't matter what anyone "believes" to be the case.... there are laws that supersede those "beliefs". The more appropriate question would be ...Do you subscribe to your own beliefs? Do you place your music into the public domain from the very start? Personally, I don't copyright the songs and cues I write. No one is out there waiting for me to write something and steal it. It is, however, still protected by the copyright laws of the USA. Yes you are right. As soon as you create a new piece of music the copyright is established. Whether you register it or not is up to you. The US Govt. charges way to much for us "normal" people to pay for every piece we create but it does not stop the law from protecting it. Just makes it harder to prove if we had to. Not that anybody is stealing anything I write either.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Italian for Windows is Here!
Ci siamo dati da fare e abbiamo aggiunto oltre 50 nuove funzionalità e una straordinaria raccolta di nuovi contenuti, tra cui 222 RealTracks, nuovi RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 3, Playable RealDrums Set 2, due nuovi set di "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 e altro ancora!
Tutti Pacchetti | Nuove Caratteristiche
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 French for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 apporte plus de 50 fonctions nouvelles ainsi qu'une importante de contenus nouveaux à savoir : 222 RealTracks, des RealStyles nouveaux, des SuperTracks MIDI, des Etudes d'Instruments, des Prestations d'Artistes, des "Morceaux avec Choeurs", un Set 3 de Tracks Jouables, un Set 2 de RealDrums Jouables, deux nouveaux Sets de "RealDrums Stems", des Styles XPro PAK 6, des Xtra Styles PAK 17 et bien plus encore!
Tous Packages | Nouvelles Fonctionnalités
Video: Making a Song with Band-in-a-Box®, ChatGPT, and Synth V
Take your Band-in-a-Box® project to a whole new level when you incorporate ChatGPT and Synth V to add lyrics and vocals to your song!
We wanted to demonstrate how this is done with our video, where we show you how to go from nothing to a finished "radio ready" modern pop song by combining the features of Band-in-a-Box®, ChatGPT, and Synth V!
Listen to the finished song, so you get a listen to the finished product: https://demos.pgmusic.com/misc/behindthefame.m4a
If you like it, watch the video. Either way, let's hear your comments!
Henry Clarke: Revolutionize Your Band-in-Box® Tracks with Regenerating Function
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,927
Posts738,976
Members38,621
|
Most Online2,537 Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|