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BIGGEST BANG FOR THE BUCK MAC TO BUY ?? i'm asking the question because the new mac announcements are out. the problem is with mac "refurbs" some are coming with XEON processors which are beasts, and cost between 400 to 800 bucks. eg. https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/category/apple-mac-pro/26656great value imho for any recording studio. might get one myself for codeing/tinkering/running reaper biab etc. etc. these refurbs also often have ssd's etc.//lots of ram etc etc. so what do other people think ? , given a fixed installation recording studio ?? not a mobile one ?? what is the better deal ? a new machine costing maybe double ? or a refurb XEON mac beast ? with warranty of course ? difficult call imho. you can also get i5/i7 refurbs. i look forward to peoples comments/views. best. oldmuso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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I personally have a fairly heavily upgraded 2009 Mac Pro:
8-core 2.93ghz (Xeon X5670 x2, upgraded from stock 2.26ghz E5520 x2)
48gb Ram
Geforce GTX 960 4gb
512gb SSD (on Sata 3 card)
2tb HDD
USB 3.1 card
Mine is flashed so OSX recognizes it as a 2010-2012 model so I can run High Sierra (can run Mojave too if I want) rather than the "officially supported" El Capitan. It's great, and is a total beast (and even better when/if I get a pair of X5690's).
They are a great deal for what they are; however, I would only recommend them for tinkerers, and I would not recommend anything older than the 2009 model (even the 8-core 2008 model, it's not worth it).
Even with my 8-core beast, I still run into the odd thing that chugs along on it that is faster on my 2012 Macbook Pro - presumably there are new instruction sets in the newer i7 chip that the Xeon doesn't have.
But don't take my opinion necessarily - I'm one of those people who hates to update anything - still have High Sierra running Pro Tools 12 and Logic 10.4.8 and I'll keep them running until I actually find a good reason to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade everything.
Also, I found it very amusing that the link you posted had some G5 Power Macs for over $500 - the local craigslist has them pop up here for under a hundred, and still nobody wants them!
Last edited by Simon - PG Music; 11/13/20 09:11 AM.
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simon.
yeh no oldies//power macs.
lovely rig you got. nice ram etc.
i picked up awhile back also another refurb (win) laptop with, get this , a sata port on the outside.
believe it or not i never get win 10 problems.
i guess cos i keep studio stuff off the net.
trouble is this trend to cut down on numbers of ports these days ,really bugs me. and other musos.
whereas the refurbs often have many more ports.
saw one other day , refurb, load of usb 3/sspeed ports.
if one thinks bout it , for less than 1800 bucks NOW
a studio could have a win xeon beast AND a MAC xeon beast.
if one goes the refurb route. so all b ases covered.
i buy cars the same way. save 15k by going the low mileage
route
i will say one thing.
if tomorrow apple brought out a 10 ghz mac mini for 900
bucks i would be all over it like i love ice cream lol.
i'm hoping now apple is going with its own custom processors
we get past these boring low ghz processors.
its like we are on a never ending plateau processor speed wise. its the darn laws of semiconductor physics of course.
best to you.
old muso.
ps just this afternoon i was talking to a heavy tech guy who, turns out is a drummer. told him bout biab and what he could do with it. he loved the idea. he is ALSO into refurbs.
he is gonna visit the pg site and suss the product out.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/13/20 10:37 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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simon.
yeh no oldies//power macs.
lovely rig you got. nice ram etc.
i picked up awhile back also another refurb (win) laptop with, get this , a sata port on the outside.
believe it or not i never get win 10 problems.
i guess cos i keep studio stuff off the net.
trouble is this trend to cut down on numbers of ports these days ,really bugs me. and other musos.
whereas the refurbs often have many more ports.
saw one other day , refurb, load of usb 3/sspeed ports.
if one thinks bout it , for less than 1800 bucks NOW
a studio could have a win xeon beast AND a MAC xeon beast.
if one goes the refurb route. so all b ases covered.
i buy cars the same way. save 15k by going the low mileage
route
i will say one thing.
if tomorrow apple brought out a 10 ghz mac mini for 900
bucks i would be all over it like i love ice cream lol.
i'm hoping now apple is going with its own custom processors
we get past these boring low ghz processors.
its like we are on a never ending plateau processor speed wise. its the darn laws of semiconductor physics of course.
best to you.
old muso.
ps just this afternoon i was talking to a heavy tech guy who, turns out is a drummer. told him bout biab and what he could do with it. he loved the idea. he is ALSO into refurbs.
he is gonna visit the pg site and suss the product out. Esata, great thing to have back then when USB3 wasn't around! Bit of a pain sometimes though. And yeah, it's best to keep Windows machines off the internet. Great thing about refurbs is they're tested before they get to your door. The new M1 Mac Mini is in the 3ghz range (3.2ghz I think). I don't think we'll see 10ghz processors anytime soon as we still need to overcome transistor speed limitations as there can be a few billion transistors in a CPU - instead we'll see the gains from improving efficiency and increasing parallelism (core count). This is why a 2019 Macbook Pro with a 2.6ghz i7 benchmarks nearly 6x as fast as a 2010 Macbook Pro with a 2.66ghz i7.
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I have an iMac Pro and the new iMac. If running BIAB, the 2020 iMac is a beast.
The M1 Mini should be great once BIAB is compatible. My only issue with it is that the current models are limited to 2TB onboard storage. BIAB isn’t the issue here but some of my other apps need 4TB for my workflow.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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simon.
YOU SAID "Great thing about refurbs is they're tested before they get to your door."
THATS WHY I LOVE THEM ! AND NO MADWARE JUNK LOL.
i'm curious about your own gonzo refurb macs.
reason i'm asking , is, i tried a macbook awhile back at the store.
(but maybe the store had it set up wrong.)
clicked on the gband icon , and i waited and waited etc.
so i was rather surprised. i was expecting quik snappy response.
so, on your gonzo refurb macs, once you clik on say the logic or gband icon, how long before the traks display ??
reason i'm asking is i really cant crit win right now.
and believe you me i used to roar years back lol.
i clik on icon , and bam , there are my traks , no waiting around.
all is snappy. "bam".
includeing biab generation.
i lay out chords/load a style/clik generate and "bam", playback very snappy. no probs. thus i can work fast.
in fact my system is so snappy i can be playing a style back , and going, "nah" not what i want and load another style, and it generates without me clicking the generate button again !! WELL DONE PG !!
cos i'm not lazy. i like to audition quickly style after style with my set song chord arrangement.
for example what i'm doing right now is a song is finished. vocs done etc etc in daw.
bed traks from biab done. xferred to daw, over dubs done in daw etc.
now i'm going back to biab and auditioning each and every style (its a rock song but i'm auditioning even sambas /jazz/country and every other style) to see what other "neat sounds" i can use from biab/rb in this rock song.
for example awhile back i heard biab "bells". "great". like it.
so i xferred the bells out of biab into the rock song.
this is why i love biab. HIDDEN NUGGETS. now i dunno , maybe others will think the song is junk.
but we will see. might replace the bells with real church bells. but it all helps.
youve got a great mac set up there with ssd's etc simon. so i'm curious.
i'm thinking of going to a dual system set up.
2 xeon refurbs loaded with ssd's.
one win , and one mac. just for giggles.
my beautifull wife , i told her bout your RME, and god bless her sher said "i'll buy it for you for xmas".
but i realloy dont need a new interface.
i might get one in new year for giggles.
but i dont like to spend a lot in case it goes on the "fritz".
(you sussed mme lol. i like to get down n dirty with tech. lol.)
i think frankly, and ive noticed this with friends systems is one reason they have win problems, is they are useing the one pc for everything. ie its used for songs and also on the net,
then the kids might pop on it doing something etc etc. so its getting used for lots of stuff and thus gets "gunked up". and of course nobody bothers to do any maintenance.
my systems are maintained.
i'm curious to hear from other mac users also whether mini or on upwards in the range.
maybe you are operating a high end new mac. how quik to load logic or gband or biab or other audio software ?
on my win laptop i have latency right now reported of 6ms.
i can get it lower if i want , but i dont bother. i have DM of course this system is only used for song creation. nothing else.
thus simon i'm not sure win is that bad these days.
did you notice in the other thread (see you tube) slate digital have got latency down to less than 1ms in an audio interface ?.
so this is protools native territory whereby big studios typically used those avid real time interfaces.
also every new budget interface i see coming out these days claims ultra low latency.
mike.
yes the imac is nice.
but i'm "cheap" lol.
i'm sincerely hoping now that apple is useing their own arm processors processing power goes up and prices come down.
apple are missing huge revenue markets imho.
other mac users.
please tell me if you are useing any of the new interfaces
from ssl, motu, and others.
best.
muso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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simon.
YOU SAID "Great thing about refurbs is they're tested before they get to your door."
THATS WHY I LOVE THEM ! AND NO MADWARE JUNK LOL.
i'm curious about your own gonzo refurb macs.
reason i'm asking , is, i tried a macbook awhile back at the store.
(but maybe the store had it set up wrong.)
clicked on the gband icon , and i waited and waited etc.
so i was rather surprised. i was expecting quik snappy response.
so, on your gonzo refurb macs, once you clik on say the logic or gband icon, how long before the traks display ??
My 2012 MBP Retina 15" is about 9 seconds to open Logic to my default template (1 audio track with no plugins). It's a hair faster than my monster Mac Pro I think, but not by much. Might have fewer plugins on the MBP I think. Both machines are ~6 seconds to open BIAB.
youve got a great mac set up there with ssd's etc simon. so i'm curious.
i'm thinking of going to a dual system set up.
2 xeon refurbs loaded with ssd's.
one win , and one mac. just for giggles.
my beautifull wife , i told her bout your RME, and god bless her sher said "i'll buy it for you for xmas".
but i realloy dont need a new interface.
i might get one in new year for giggles.
but i dont like to spend a lot in case it goes on the "fritz".
(you sussed mme lol. i like to get down n dirty with tech. lol.)
I'll have to do a loopback test on the RME, see how much round trip latency I have on my 16-year-old interface on an 11-year-old computer. I did that using the built-in audio on my 2012 MBP and got 7.4ms actual round trip latency at a 64-sample buffer (for a reported 4.9ms from Logic).
i think frankly, and ive noticed this with friends systems is one reason they have win problems, is they are useing the one pc for everything. ie its used for songs and also on the net,
then the kids might pop on it doing something etc etc. so its getting used for lots of stuff and thus gets "gunked up". and of course nobody bothers to do any maintenance.
my systems are maintained.
My Mac Pro is used for my day-to-day as well as audio stuff. Still pretty quick. And Mac doesn't get "gunked up" nearly as quick as Windows does.
i'm curious to hear from other mac users also whether mini or on upwards in the range.
maybe you are operating a high end new mac. how quik to load logic or gband or biab or other audio software ?
on my win laptop i have latency right now reported of 6ms.
i can get it lower if i want , but i dont bother. i have DM of course this system is only used for song creation. nothing else.
thus simon i'm not sure win is that bad these days.
did you notice in the other thread (see you tube) slate digital have got latency down to less than 1ms in an audio interface ?.
so this is protools native territory whereby big studios typically used those avid real time interfaces.
also every new budget interface i see coming out these days claims ultra low latency.
I used to work in a studio that had a full Pro Tools HD rig with a bunch of the old 192 interfaces, 32 channels worth. Hardware latency was very minimal - the issue was when you're using a plugin that causes latency while tracking (reverb, for example) which is why we had outboard reverb even if we only used it to track.
mike.
yes the imac is nice.
but i'm "cheap" lol.
i'm sincerely hoping now that apple is useing their own arm processors processing power goes up and prices come down.
apple are missing huge revenue markets imho.
The ARM Mac Mini is the same price the previous bottom end Mac Mini i3 was. It benchmarks nearly double the i3 though.
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simon.
thank you for those stats. (and the mac mini info.)
very kind of you.
i'll give you my worst case stats timings , from a complex rock song i'm doing right now.
(i'm win 10/i5 cpu at 2.6ghz, and ssd, a refurb. i'm ultrapak. system boots from cold bout 9 secs or less.
very snappy system.)
all stats/timings are after clicking on the respective music apps icon on the desktop.
i did all tests just now. current today.
1. boot into biab - 5 secs. (my songs typical gen time all rt's 5/6 secs also. but sometimes less.)
if midi of course much faster. instantaneous in stylepicker auditioning styles.
(very snappy auditioining RT styles with example songs.)
2. boot into realband - bout 7 secs.
(note RB audio test reports i can do 191 traks. please read my RB wishlist entry re request to pg to exapand this usefull test.)
3. boot into reaper. believe it or not. no matter how complex the song. bout 3 secs.
all traks waveforms displayed. very very fast.
(if you have time sometime , tell me how long reaper takes to load on your macs.)
some notes. i just tested on a complex song in reaper.
a. lots of clips/traks. bout 26 audio traks. all snappy. no
lag.
b. more plug ins than i normally use. bout 20 low cpu useage plug ins over 26 traks.
(combo of pg low useage dx and reaper low useage js plug ins. plus a couple of higher useage guitar amp plug ins.)
all snappy. no lag.
c. note reason reaper is fast is waveforms are stored in special files.
d. note reaper has pdc. reaper reports latency of 6 ms. i could get it lower. but dont bother. i have DM on steinberg ur interface.
4. clicking on win apps icons in desktop. nearly instantaneous eg control panel, this pc etc etc.
best.
muso.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/17/20 02:26 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Reaper loads in about 4 seconds. I don't have Realband (Mac) so I can't test how quick that opens of course. My monster Mac is still running a SATA-III SSD, not yet an NVME. That would improve things more.
My RME on my Mac has a round trip latency of 3.1ms at 192k and 3.6ms at 96k, measured with Logic and with the RTL Utility. My MOTU on Windows by comparison has about 7ms at 96k, lowest I could get it was 5.5ms at 44.1k.
Interestingly, in Pro Tools I measured a round trip latency of 16 samples - that's 0.16ms at 96k. I made sure I had latency compensation disabled, but I think it was still correcting it somehow.
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The answer: Neither.
The basic 8 core iMac is under $3,900 in the Refurb Store. There is nothing about BIAB tat will make it breathe hard.
That said, the new Mini won’t be a bad choice but not quite the bargain it seems upfront.
A maxed out M1 Mini is $1,699. This is with 16GB RAM (Integrated) and 2TB SSD. Integrated RAM cannot really be compared to what you’re used to.
A Magic Mouse 2 adds $99 or Magic trackpad II is $149. Magic Keyboard: $99 or $149 with numeric key pad
AppleCare+ adds $99.
Then you need a monitor. 4Ks run $400–700 or so. 5K is $1,300 (same screen as 27” iMac) — $1,600. 6K is $5,000–$7,000
I recently bought a 2020 iMac for my wife. With RAM from OWC, it set me back around $3,000 for one to meets her needs. Again, BIAB runs easily but not my choice for high end audio or AV.
The reason to consider a Mac Pro 7.1 is because you are doing high end AV — and then it’s the perfect machine. About $12,000 gets you a 16 Core in the Refurb Store with 4TB storage, a Vega Pro II PU and the Afterburner.
By “high end AV”, I mean beyond the capabilities of my 18 Core iMac Pro. Not many users need a 7.1 MP but AV pros are the customer. The 7.1 competes with Maya rendering stations running Win 10 costing up to $150,000.
That’s what’s available now. High end Apple Silicon machines are coming that will blow everything above out of the water.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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simon.
nice performance figs.
btw if i was to get a refurb mac, which is the earliest year to
run logic pro ? on mac version 10 os ?
hopefully i wouldnt have to go too far back.
i'm just trying to keep an open mind on mac.
a friend of mine just got a whaling deal on hp desktop.
700 buks tax in , includes the new slotted ssd.
very fast i5/9400.
mike.
wow those prices are way above my pay grade.
so no mouse or kbd with mini ?
re "neither".
so are you saying folks should wait right now ?
best.
muso.
ps anyone know anythiong good bout NI komplete usb interface ? just trying to keep open minded.
within my puny budget lol.
NI comes with a slew of muso stuff.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/19/20 03:59 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Yeah, the Mac Mini is only a good deal if all you need is the cheapest version and nothing else. They've never included any accessories with them right from day one, nearly 16 years ago I think. They were originally marketed for people wanting to upgrade, who already had keyboards/mice/monitors etc.
For running the latest version of Logic (10.6), it requires Catalina, so you'd have to look at a ~2012 Mac give or take. If you're willing to use an older version of Logic, you can go back further.
My opinion on tech is, unless you need the bleeding edge, wait. Just like how you like refurbs, you save a lot of money by not buying the latest and greatest hardware.
NI hardware is generally very good quality. Sound quality might not be as high as others, but they're typically reliable and sturdy.
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simon.
thanks for the info.
logic pro IS nice.
the other prob of course is, and i found this out the hard
way running big studio gear once is - the more gear, the more to go wrong lol. darn console cards going on the fritz,
and tape machine problems and tape shedding etc etc.
cost of 2 inch tape etc.
i dont miss it.
thats why i simplified. i found i was doing
more maintenance than creating songs.
and i'm happier now with a leaner approach.
i just like the mini cos of its small footprint.
heres what i dont understand.
i just dont know what is in apples mind simon.
if i can buy a hp desktop i5/9400 (v good rateing on
cpubenchmark.net) with the new nvme slotted ssd, and another drive for 700 bucks. why cant apple do the same. ??
my friend is really happy with the new hp desktop.
very fast. only neg is the madware. so gotta get rid of that
of course.
where i come from an old saying is "buy apple computers used,
and with the money you save , buy apple shares" !
some people have got rich buying apple shares donkeys years ago. very very rich in fact.
i'm looking forward to see what biab 2021 brings.
how bout a version for the 35 buck raspberry pi computer.
they have sold millions of units.
think of the marketing opportunity.
i'm looking at all the new audio interfaces right now.
NI/maudio 192 air/ssl2+/motu M.2/4 etc etc.
you ever try the harrison mixbus software ?
apparently its on very cheap right now.
(the harrison consoles (hardware) are wonderfull).
every happiness/respect
muso.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/20/20 11:50 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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I'm a gear snob, but certainly you won't find me with huge rooms full of gear anymore - plugins have come a long way, but you're still not gonna separate me from physical knobs anytime soon. I use a bit of tape here and there, but more for effect than anything else.
Yeah, best thing about the Mini is the size. I'm not a fan of how the M1 Mini takes any chance of upgrading away again though - all RAM and storage are soldered to the logic board (2012 Mini was the last to allow upgrades to both Ram and storage - 2014 Mini had soldered ram and SATA storage, 2018 Mini had socketed Ram again but soldered storage). Guess that's the tradeoff you take today.
Apple doesn't do the same as HP because they've intentionally segregated their market. People who want "just a Mac" can buy a Mini or Macbook/Air/Pro 13". People who want a nice screen and low desktop footprint can buy an iMac. People who want an upgradable beast can buy the Pro. If they offered a "Pro Lite" like many have suggested over the years, it would cut into at least a percentage of the Pro sales - that said, I personally think the difference would come out in the wash.
I was actually looking at my small collection of Raspberry Pi's last night and thought "dang, we're gonna be compiling for ARM Mac's at some point - BB could totally run on a Pi!" Absolutely not saying it's gonna happen ever, but it was an interesting thought for sure.
Buy whichever interface fits your workflow. Sound quality differences on them these days is negligible for most people. Buy a big brand name so you have less driver issues.
Never tried Mixbus or Harrison consoles myself, but heard good things.
Last edited by Simon - PG Music; 11/20/20 12:31 PM.
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simon.
1.mac mini soldered ram ? are you kidding me ? lol
how to win friends. what marketing guy made THAT decision.
jeesh.
if apple were smart they would flood the market with cheap mac minis, and win lots of friends.
there are two ways to sell i learnt in marketing 101.
low margin mass market, or high margin not many sold.
i guess theyve chosen the latter.
2.Bring on the PI. and steak n kidney with beer. lol.
they just upgraded the PI processor.
reaper and traction waveform run on it.
add in biab. WOW , potent combo.
best.
muso.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/20/20 02:30 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,729
Product Manager
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Product Manager
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,729 |
simon.
1.mac mini soldered ram ? are you kidding me ? lol
how to win friends. what marketing guy made THAT decision.
jeesh.
if apple were smart they would flood the market with cheap mac minis, and win lots of friends.
there are two ways to sell i learnt in marketing 101.
low margin mass market, or high margin not many sold.
i guess theyve chosen the latter.
That's always been the Apple approach, at least since OSX started. High dollar low sales.
2.Bring on the PI. and steak n kidney with beer. lol.
they just upgraded the PI processor.
reaper and traction waveform run on it.
add in biab. WOW , potent combo.
I'd love to see that! Probably will never happen, but it'd be pretty great imo.
I work here
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 3,508
Veteran
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OP
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 3,508 |
simon. and where is canadian industry in the tech race ? it seems nowhere. i lament the fact that canada spends billions on university education etc, but graduates have no jobs at graduation because most tech is manufactured in other countries. any high tech retail or music store will confirm that. the billions wasted on the education system astounds me. it would be better spent makeing canada a leader in high tech manufacturing imho. what the hey do researchers at canadian universities do ? it seems they produce nothing of import. very sad imho. thus canadas deficit ballons as it imports all tech. mics/telecomms/computers etc etc. imported. it seems that the industry ministry in ottawa is asleep at the switch. (well everything shuts down in ottawa after 5 pm anyway lol.) what do these people and the national research council in ottawa do simon ? dont they see the need for made in canada tech solutions ? to create canadian industry and jobs for grads ? pg is one of the few canadian companies in tech. and i support them for that reason. for example in BC there are lots of brilliant tech people. why isnt BC forgeing forward to lead in tech ? simon. i, like every other musician, hunger for higher levels of computer architectures. an end to slow boot ups, latency, bsods, boring low ghz processors , marketing games . etc etc. i guess one reason i buy refurbs is as rebellion against (to quote the brilliant jack black in school of rock) "THE MAN". lol. all people want is powerfull / inexpensive/no trouble computers to make songs with. best muso. ps talking of brilliant little products , check out this 30 buck isk pearl mic on this female singer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTI1NKbMdIk
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/25/20 03:23 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 862
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 862 |
The entry cost for a new high performance mac can just about stop the heart.
My 2013 Macbook Pro 15 quad core i7 16gb RAM 1Tb ssd was about $4k if I remember correctly when I bought it new in 2013.
But I've had it for almost 8 years and it can still run BIAB win in Parallels and Logic without any problems.
I expect it to go for at least a couple more years before its ready for a new life.
I run 2 large high resolution monitors with it. I rarely take it out of the house anymore.
To me 10 years on a great performing low headache machine is money well spent.
Personally, I'm going to wait for the dust to settle a little on the new processors. Then I'll either purchase a new mac mini (i own plenty of monitors) or a macbook pro, pretty much maxed out.
I'm very satisfied buying Apple Products brand new. I feel fortunate I can do so. That being said, I see no problem buying used gear as long as it doesn't have spinning disk drives. I think we're done with those.
If only PG Music would stop sending me one every year.
biab2025(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS (Latest)
Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11.2.2
Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 3,508
Veteran
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OP
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 3,508 |
mrgeeze.
i refuse to submit to any companys pricing demands.
for example my wife just got a wonderfull motorola new phone for a couple of hundred buks. she didnt need to spend 1k.
she loves it. 64 mp camera included if i remember.
better than spending crazy on tech, particularly with rampant obsolescence.
the mac mini is cute. but lack of upgradeability is putting me off.
frankly mrgeeze i think we need a new computer platform to compete with PC and MAC.
competition is badly needed, so prices come down for us consumers.
ive been hoping for something to come out of left field like a 10ghz system for 800 buks. still dreaming. lol.
i'm not spending large , when i can buy cheaply all sorts of refurbished machines that are processing beasts.
lots of them. take a look for yourself.
just google "year" your interested in plus word "refurb" plus "xeon or i7 processor" plus "ssd" plus "amount of ram you want". and youll see lots of deals on macs.
ive found repeatedly refurbs have caused me no problems compared to new.
i can buy (for the price of a mac mini), for 1600 buks or less a refurb xeon pc beast AND a refurb mac xeon beast.
so i'm torn. even tho the mini is cute.
(xeon is intels top processor.) so all recording software bases are covered.
simon imho has the right ideas with his macs.
(see up thread.)
what i'm watching for right now are deals on newer xeon, i7, and i9 refurb beasts.
the i9 , being new is tough to find in refurbs of course. have to wait a bit for off lease deals.
best.
muso.
ps arent the pg usb 3 drives they send us ssd now ?
my ultrapak drive is very fast. no complaints.
i even use the spare storage as "quicky" song backups,
together with my other multiple backup strategies.
i use the old drives for even further backups to other apps.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,729
Product Manager
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Product Manager
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,729 |
justanoldmuso, that's why I still have a 5-year-old iPhone that initially cost me $50 (in addition to my 8-year-old and 11-year-old Macs). If it works, why break it?
I would love for the Raspberry Pi to become that third platform - the Pi 4 hardware is powerful enough for daily driving, just add a small SSD for speed and you're good. Maybe make an 8-core version to compete a bit closer to the new 8-core Mac Mini.
Fastest they've ever been able to make a CPU go is a bit over 8ghz (overclocking with liquid nitrogen cooling I think) - fastest stock cpu is still under 5ghz, so we're not gonna see 10ghz soon. That's why 32-core Threadripper's exist.
And no, currently the PG hard drives are still spinning hard drives to keep prices down, otherwise UltraPAKs and Audiophile editions would cost a chunk more. Band-in-a-Box can certainly take advantage of the increased performance from an SSD, but most people (myself included) don't notice the difference in practice. Heck, my current BIAB UltraPAK drive that I use for testing here still uses a USB 2.0 connection! No speed complaints from me, I can still load BIAB in under 10 seconds. System is a quad i7 with 16gb ram, so that helps.
I work here
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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