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You can also do 16 RTs in the plugin as well So it there and its free. As far as BiaB I believe it was said by one of the PGM staff, maybe Mr. Gannon that processing RTs in the utility tracks is a feature for another release. Right now it is to move as was mentioned above RT you are satisfied with down opening up space for more RT creation on the style tracks. To my mind this still a very cool feature. If I need to add a tone of RTs I jump to RB or the plugin.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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I hope I will NEVER have to use RealBand  Had very high hopes for the "Utility" tracks, but unfortunately a big down. With all projects done in BIAB I only used "Audio" track which serves a very similar purpose on one or two occasions. Kind of -> sort of multitrack is not a bad thing, but completely not what I expected. To me, the strongest point of BIAB is to be able to change arrangement & chording. Why would I want so many fixated audio or midi tracks? I can always use DAW to mix 20+ tracks and load them to a single "audio" channel or even render BIAB to single file, and load that up. But that is not what I want or need. Ohh yes, by the way, I have not seen such "user" request for "utility" tracks that do not respond to chord changes. Did I miss that highly desirable item in wishlist? Charlie, Software is not hardware. The limits you are talking about are fictional and almost non-existent in software world. Software has to develop and flourish, not remain decades behind, emulating exact logic of the outdated hardware as you seem to suggest over and over again. Stability that you mentioned, again has absolutely nothing to do with software. Software has to be adaptable, pliable, moldable and perfected - SOFT! Ping-pong tracking was only done in those days of 4-8 track machines because there WAS an issue and REAL limit of hardware. There is almost NONE in software. ZERO! I will never agree with you on your comment above. I have nothing against hardware, but to compare the two is just absurd like comparing a penguin to ostrich. And..BIAB has a function of recording, but it is not a "recorder", so I believe comparing it with 8 track recorder is a faulty concept.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hey Rustyspoon good to see you, I hope you have been well during all the nutty stuff going on in the world these days. Actually I have to say RB is not a bad deal, I would suggest not to dismiss it so quickly. It is 64 bit now and has become much more stable to use. one thing PG did that I feel was really a great idea was to run test on 64 bit RB for several months, not a few days. 2021 64 bit RB is the results of 2020 64 bit RB that was not released but kept in the oven for a long time. Pipeline, John ford and a few others beat that crap out of it in testing, and he concluded he has not had a crash. It is certainly not the perfect DAW, but it is very capable, especially when continuing a BiaB song file.
It can generate and regenerate over and over again. Maybe not as fast as BiaB since it does not allow you to start until generation is done. Allowing it to generate to Ram has been discussed, whether it happens we have to wait and see. It does Multiriffs, it can handle both Dxi and VSTi plugins.
Reaper, Studio one, Cakewalk, Logic, Protools, Cubase, you name it, none of these can generate and regenerate and add RT/RDs without the aid of the Biab plugin. RB can and it has 48 tracks and a mixer with FX sends and Midi control, most everything any other DAW can do. The biggest complaints to date were people don't like the GUI, some found it slightly unstable, and it was dated in it's 32 bit architecture. So now its 64 bit, much more stable, and while the GUI is not super modern the system works well and does a great job.
Last edited by Rob Helms; 11/29/20 05:26 PM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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You can also do 16 RTs in the plugin as well So it there and its free. As far as BiaB I believe it was said by one of the PGM staff, maybe Mr. Gannon that processing RTs in the utility tracks is a feature for another release. The RTs in the Plugin are audio same as Utility tracks. The future release mentioned would be doing the same as the Plugin/RealBand, generating up the RT or section of RT into RAM, saving it to wav audio and inserting in a Util track.
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Reaper, Studio one, Cakewalk, Logic, Protools, Cubase, you name it, none of these can generate and regenerate and add RT/RDs without the aid of the Biab plugin. Where these guys/girls are coming from, is they don't want the audio "locked in stone" tracks, they want to change chords/key instantly on all the extra tracks. As I said the "old users/hardware" notion is is preventing this. See the DAWs in the quote, they would all play from the source files that are sliced up, pitched and stretched. They would all play 14 RTs from the source files in your RealTracks folder that have been sliced, pitched and stretched in the DAW.
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Yeah I get you, and I know where you and they are coming from. While the tech has to keep moving forward, it also to grow at a pace that doesn't deeply effect both older and newer systems. One very valid point you make is the the development should not be stopped by older users and hardware, but you can't totally toss them aside either. I am right there with you on the idea of generate to Ram in BiaB that is a great idea.
I guess I am just pointing out that we have 16 utility tracks to move generated RTs to and then open up tracks to generate more, then move them, the rinse and repeat. Hopefully they will add RT/RD generation to those utility tracks in the near future maybe even in 2022, cause that would be really useful and productive.
My point is regarding those other programs is that none of them have any of this capability. They however can and do benefit and are complimented by the features in BiaB products. There are a lot of tools in a good craftsman tool box and no end to the ways they can be used, only limited by the skill sets of the user. We are fortunate to have the quality of the tools we have today.
Rustyspoon made an interesting point about the old days of ping ponging tracks on tape, and I remember those days. Great music was made then. What we have now is so far ahead of that. It took real craftsman to create a song then, as it was a tedious process. Now we can take 5 minutes to type in the chords, 1 minute to chose a style, and 40 seconds to generate a 5 piece backing band. You have to admit it is kind of crazy what this stuff does. And for sure it is a lot of fun.
Hey Pipeline, by the way thanks for all your help this year, and the same to John Ford, Matt, RHarv, Jim and Charlie Fogle, Jeff Pettit, Video track, and a whole lot more I can't remember off the top of my head. Lots of great ideas, and a lot of help to newer members. I have been using this stuff for many years, but I am constantly learning from all of you folks.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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One very valid point you make is the the development should not be stopped by older users and hardware, but you can't totally toss them aside either. So I don't know, whats the solution ? Biab(non toss aside users) and Biab Deluxe (newer hardware users)???? My point is regarding those other programs is that none of them have any of this capability. Reaper will also Play the tracks if there are 24bit 48KHz This is what we have a the moment that I posted 4 years ago 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I guess I am just pointing out that we have 16 utility tracks to move generated RTs to and then open up tracks to generate more, then move them, the rinse and repeat. I have no need for 16 new audio tracks. I don't use audio in BIAB. I do that in my DAW where it is much more modern and stable. Since these new tracks cannot handle RealTracks nor regenerate in response to any song changes they are no more useful than simply dragging rendered audio tracks to my DAW. I just cannot see any real benefit to them. Hopefully they will add RT/RD generation to those utility tracks in the near future maybe even in 2022, cause that would be really useful and productive. I have only been here since 2012 but I have grown so tired of the "maybe they will fix the new features next year" comment. My point is regarding those other programs is that none of them have any of this capability. The only thing BIAB and RB have that I need is RealTracks. Everything else is better done in my DAW. Rustyspoon made an interesting point about the old days of ping ponging tracks on tape, and I remember those days. Great music was made then. What we have now is so far ahead of that. It took real craftsman to create a song then, as it was a tedious process. Now we can take 5 minutes to type in the chords, 1 minute to chose a style, and 40 seconds to generate a 5 piece backing band. You have to admit it is kind of crazy what this stuff does. And for sure it is a lot of fun. Another old saw that I get tired of hearing. "Don't complain about incomplete features because remember splicing tape and how hard that was?" Sorry. Don't mean to sound mean but the rah-rah stuff always bugs me.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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...Another old saw that I get tired of hearing. "Don't complain about incomplete features because remember splicing tape and how hard that was?" Sorry. Don't mean to sound mean but the rah-rah stuff always bugs me. Ha Ha , well at least that gave me a generous smile. This point is exactly right. Without advancement in developments, improvements and adopting new technology, we would still be on horseback, or driving Model-T's, and no one is mentioning that 
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Hi,
Installed 2021 update.
I loaded a song I created with the 2020 version of biab, loaded fine but when I tried to transpose my song, all the tracks transposed but not the audio track...
Tried with other files didn't work either..
Tried the same procedure on my laptop.. Same issue So yes Utility tracks would be better if they could be actual RealTracks also for what users need. With the regenerate selected bars function like the soloist.
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Absolutely, I think we can all agree with that. Let's hope this is the first step, and fully functional Utility Tracks will follow. Right now, the song form, key, and tempo need to be set before using a Utility Track. Still, even with those restrictions, I find them very helpful to have.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I'm also hopeful that the initial release of Utility Tracks is a precursor to what can be done with other tracks, plus more improvements. They are usable, but sit quite out of context compare to the functionality offered by the other tracks.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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My initial excitement at all the extra utility tracks was short lived, as I assumed they would have full realtrack functionality.
Really disappointed in that, but maybe a small first step towards the above goal.
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Absolutely, I think we can all agree with that. Let's hope this is the first step, and fully functional Utility Tracks will follow. Right now, the song form, key, and tempo need to be set before using a Utility Track. Still, even with those restrictions, I find them very helpful to have. It solves a problem for me. I have several pieces that have more than 8 RTs. The only way I could do it in BB was to FIX the arrangement, tempo,ending etc with the instruments I had in "SGU1" and Save. Then remove the tracks and add the others and Save as SGU2 and take the lot over to my DAW. I dont use RB before you say, everything takes too long. NOW I believe that I can FIX as before and put those SGU1 tracks in Utility tracks and replace with more RTs and so on. NOTE _ Until I hear good words that the NO AUDIO MME vs WASAPI vs ASIO vs WTH!! issue mentioned in posts above is fixed, I will not be buying - but my Wallet is open and ready!! I do not want to find that I'm having to troubleshoot a 2021 with my limited computer knowledge when my 2020 was ultra rock steady. Bests Ian
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I have several pieces that have more than 8 RTs. The only way I could do it in BB was to FIX the arrangement, tempo,ending etc with the instruments I had in "SGU1" and Save.
Then remove the tracks and add the others and Save as SGU2 and take the lot over to my DAW.
I dont use RB before you say, everything takes too long.
NOW I believe that I can FIX as before and put those SGU1 tracks in Utility tracks and replace with more RTs and so on. I use a workflow similar to yours. - Create my main song file and finalize its length, key, tempo, structure, etc. - Freeze the tracks and save a copy of the song file. - In the copy I replace tracks with alternatives, extras, etc. - Freeze the tracks and save the 2nd file. - When finished I export all audio tracks from each song file and move them into my DAW. The whole process is fairly simple. And if I change my mind about something like length, key, tempo, structure, etc. I can simply open each file, unfreeze and regen and export again. I do not see how the utility tracks improve on this process. In fact, it seems it would be more complicated in the example I gave should I ever wish to change length, key, tempo, structure, etc. (which I do at the 11th hour of almost every project!) Now, on the other hand, if the utility tracks actually handled RealTracks and regenerated like normal tracks this might be an improvement. As it is I cannot see me using this feature.
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 12/01/20 06:03 AM.
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<< I think that is the mindset of PG, it's like sacrificing development for modern hardware users because of older hardware users ?? >>
And also the mindset of most hardware stand alone multi track digital recorder manufacturers. It seems to be the popular price configuration for both hardware and stable software. The most popular models settle on 8 inputs to create extremely stable units. 8 also seems to be the standard on audio interfaces for physical pre-amps. Tracks have never been the issue even back to analog 4 track recorders. I think the 8 input thing is mostly a throwback to tape machines and analog mixers rather than for stability. As you mentioned 4-track tape was popular, but so was 8-track, 16-track, 24-track, etc often moving in multiples of 8 (once you get past 4). Same with mixers - most often they move in multiples of 8 channels, at least at the professional level. Then again, my DDA mixer has 23 mic inputs - explain that one! (Easily explained - it's modular, and is missing two slots - except if you do the math then it should be 25?)
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