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the three phases i think were described by robert heinlein. phase one - the machine works but in a very clunky and inefficient way. phase 2 is where they build on bits and modifications that are designed to stop the clunkiness - a big flywheel to smooth out rough running for example. phase three is a streamlined, simple, better engineered version without the extra bits that just works as it should have done to start with.
strikes me BIAB is at phase 2. bits added to meet the wish list of extra mixer channels and so on. the slew of patches this time and bugs that need fixing is longer this year than i can ever remember. it seems it's getting harder to handle the bits built on.
BIAB will never reach phase three. it's not a DAW. it's an auto accompaniment program. a recent post by simon on aux sends in the mixer sums it up. you generate a BIAB track and then finish in a DAW. i use RB and it does everything the add on bits that BIAB keeps coming out with to add DAW functions do.
not everyone likes RB but it seems most of us use BIAB then finish off in a DAW.
i love BIAB and RB. pg music has great staff and a good support team and forums are informative and helpful.
i just wonder if BIAB would be better if PG concentrated on the auto accompaniment element and met some of the wish list requirements like breaking free of 3/4 and 2/4 time signatures, requested RealTracks etc instead of building on clunky bits to turn BIAB into a DAW.
after all, RB comes free with BIAB, and Reaper and Cakewalk are free too. maybe phase three has been with us all along? BIAB plus DAW not BIAB plus bolt ons.
however, after the rant i am going to upgrade to 2021 as soon as the patches seem to slow down.
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eddie1261
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most of us use BIAB then finish off in a DAW. I once asked about why people have stuck to BIAB and not moved to RB. The overwhelming answer was "Because we started before there was RB and don't want to change." That was a "SMDH" moment for me and I didn't continue in the conversation. My take on that would have irritated too many. And I do enough of that with my often deliberate provocative comments. I try to make people think and potentially open their minds to new things. "What I do works" is NOT an acceptable lifestyle to me. Your brain will die if you don't keep trying to expand it.
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I don't want to get caught up in this one other to remind folks Reaper is NOT free!
Reaper is free to try then either you need to pay for it or quit using it. On the other hand Cakewalk By Bandlab is FREE, and is full-featured and one of the very first DAWs for PC ever, Tracktion version 7, I think version 7, is also free.
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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I once asked about why people have stuck to BIAB and not moved to RB. The overwhelming answer was "Because we started before there was RB and don't want to change ...
This was not the only answer you got, just the most frequent one. There are other reasons. No need to lump everyone into the same group.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I have often thought that PG Music should just add a tab to BIAB that opens up the RealBand track view for all those that have an aversion to using RealBand. That would have done everything the new utility tracks do and more. Sometimes being responsive to customers (especially just the most vocal) just amounts to "letting the inmates run the asylum". It seems like a waste of precious resources to just allow another way to do what we already have the ability to do.
With that said, I will also jump on the upgrade soon. Just as I always have. Occasionally it's good to remember that this forum does not represent the BIAB user universe. It is a very small very special subset of users and an echo chamber for those users only.
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sorry - reaper should cost but i know that all that is reported is a nag screen after the trial period that does not affect function
i don't use it but if i did would feel honour bound to pay
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eddie1261
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I have often thought that PG Music should just add a tab to BIAB that opens up the RealBand track view for all those that have an aversion to using RealBand. This touches on something that I have wondered for 10 years. To see BIAB and RB contained in the same package, you could easily assume that they are complimentary softwares. They are not. They are 2 completely different applications. Would I would love to see if that once an OG (or NG) BIAB user finishes a song, that song could open in RB EXACTLY as BIAB generated it. I have not tried, because I have never run BIAB because with it not being a true DAW my brain has decided it is the lesser of the two. I have watched some tutorial videos and that little mixer that pops up seems silly to me, being a DAW guy. The SGU vs SEQ thing I don't really know about other than to know that they are not directly importable without being reinterpreted. Which of course takes what the songwriter is quite happy with and changes it to something he maybe ISN'T happy with. It should be possible to just bring that BIAB song into RB just to add the4 DAW accessibility but not change one note of it. Now, many people would know that when they finish writing "MYNEWSONG" in BIAB and DO want to send it to RB to make a copy, and import "COPYOFMYNEWSONG" into RB so they can A/B the two. Most don't know to do that. BIAB and RB are both good at what they do. Just different. While I WOULD like to see the DAW side of things enhanced they aren't likely to do things just because ONE user wants it. (Apparently the cutoff is 3....)
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BIAB and RB are both good at what they do. Just different. While I WOULD like to see the DAW side of things enhanced they aren't likely to do things just because ONE user wants it. (Apparently the cutoff is 3....) You're letting your snarky side come out there Eddie! LOL
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BIAB and RB are both good at what they do. Just different. While I WOULD like to see the DAW side of things enhanced they aren't likely to do things just because ONE user wants it. (Apparently the cutoff is 3....) You're letting your snarky side come out there Eddie! LOL Eddie misses the mark on both sides and unless he is joking, his “3” remark is actually harmful. People need to know that PG Music responds to the suggestions it can and agrees with, even when only one person proposes the change. And I’ve already explained that the three people who prominently advocated for cut-time support had a valid music theory argument that opens the product up for use by many who play genres where they would have dismissed BIAB in the past.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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BIAB and RB are both good at what they do. Just different. While I WOULD like to see the DAW side of things enhanced they aren't likely to do things just because ONE user wants it. (Apparently the cutoff is 3....) You're letting your snarky side come out there Eddie! LOL Eddie misses the mark on both sides and unless he is joking, his “3” remark is actually harmful. People need to know that PG Music responds to the suggestions it can and agrees with, even when only one person proposes the change. And I’ve already explained that the three people who prominently advocated for cut-time support had a valid music theory argument that opens the product up for use by many who play genres where they would have dismissed BIAB in the past. Eddie isn't joking Matt. I'm relatively sure he's p*ssed that we had a legitimate problem addressed. That doesn't justify disparaging comments about a very good company like PG Music.
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eddie1261
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Eddie isn't joking Matt. I'm relatively sure he's p*ssed that we had a legitimate problem addressed.
Bob, I don't care that they addressed your problem. Good for you to see your comfort level enhanced. The point is that I, another extremely small minority (of 1), have what TO ME is a major problem and they will not address it. I lost track of how many times I have asked to have 1/4 note and 1/2 note triplets addressed. Just as in the case of your issue, where once it is fixed it may benefit more than just the three primary players in that subject thread. When triplets become an option, perhaps more users would incorporate them in their writing. I can only say that I have a damn good song on hold that can't be programmed in Real Band as it is. I explained in detail what the suggested workaround would take, and nobody is even sure if that workaround would work. I want to be able to select a measure, be able to hay "I want 1/2 note triplets in this measure", and have the drum accents follow the beats of those triplets. I may be the only one who cares, and if so I don't expect it be addressed. Not for one guy. As to your problem, I read all those threads and it appeared to be 3 people who were upset about that notation thing. But that they fixed. Shouldn't we all be given the same courtesy when we make GOOD suggestions? If you want to call that being p*ssed, have at it. I just want my problem fixed. Maybe it can be done with 2021, because, damn you self imposed peer pressure, I just ordered it.
Last edited by eddie1261; 12/08/20 09:48 AM.
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Eddie, yes, you should be able to get this fixed if I'm understanding your problem correctly. Is it notation or sound, or both, that is a problem?
Does a concise and respectful request exist for the change you want? [I do not use RealBand nor read the RealBand threads.] I would be happy to go there and support your request if it makes sense.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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The SGU vs SEQ thing I don't really know about other than to know that they are not directly importable without being reinterpreted. Which of course takes what the songwriter is quite happy with and changes it to something he maybe ISN'T happy with. It should be possible to just bring that BIAB song into RB just to add the4 DAW accessibility but not change one note of it. I am not a fan of Realband because it just does not compare to a modern, full-featured DAW. BUT, you make a great point here. I was willing to use RB in spite of my DAW preferences until I realized much of my work done in BIAB, such as bar settings and frozen tracks, just gets tossed when I load the song in RB! Realband should be able to open a BIAB song and apply everything I set up in BIAB.
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eddie1261
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Wait? What? J3 and I agree on something? Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse? LOL!!
Isn't that frustrating when you get it JUST so and then everything gets lost in translation? Kind of like painting a room with JUST the right color and then it dries 3 shades darker, so you have to paint again.
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eddie1261
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Eddie, yes, you should be able to get this fixed if I'm understanding your problem correctly. Is it notation or sound, or both, that is a problem?
Does a concise and respectful request exist for the change you want? [I do not use RealBand nor read the RealBand threads.] I would be happy to go there and support your request if it makes sense. I put that into the Real Band Wish List forum. It is both rhythmic and sonic in this context, because where I need the pulses in the measure to fall gets both a chord accent and a drum hit. At some point a song example will come to me that has what I need but as usual, when put on the spot to think of one I am coming up empty. This thread is the wish list post.
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Thanks for the problem description Eddie.
What you are requesting in that post isn't triplets, so I'm confused.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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eddie1261
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Thanks for the problem description Eddie.
What you are requesting in that post isn't triplets, so I'm confused.
REALLY??? What would you call that? You are way better on notation than I am. Let me state it here once more so I know you get what I said. I need beats here where it's bolded. ONE and two AND three and FOUR and If not half note triplets, what? Is this already possible, please tell me how, because I have never been able to make it work. If not me, who? If not now, when?
Last edited by eddie1261; 12/08/20 11:26 AM.
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What you have written is a chord on beat one, a push of an eighth note before beat three, and a chord on beat four. This is a classic driving rhythm such as in Don't Rain on My Parade, performed by Barbra Streisand. Is that the sound you hear?
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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eddie1261
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Not quite the same context. I am going to go upstairs in a little while and manually enter a few reps of what I want and post them. It is one of those things where I am trying to explain what "red" is to someone who can't see.
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Agreed. How about posting a song that has what you want? It may indeed be that you want half note triplets, and not what you described.
ps the rhythm as you wrote it would be only in the first, third, and fifth measures of the song I mentioned.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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