Muso, This thread is not about "big sample orchestral libs, and fancy vsti's" - I would be the first to agree with you that these have never worked in BIAB in the past and likely don't work now, but that is a different topic.
BIAB needs something to play GM and the Coyote Wavetable which BIAB installs is simply unacceptable. So if that is what you use, I suspect you never listen to midi in BIAB.
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2025, Cubase 14, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
MusicStudent actually i listen to midi a LOT. best. muso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
This is on HOLD for me. I am waiting for what has been suggested in another thread in regards to my free version of SythFontVST which I was perfectly happy with thru BIAB2020
Quote:
I chatted with support. It seems that it is coming back to BIAB (or at least the version that was in 2020 if you had that). I was told, and if I understood correctly it is probably will be resolved in the next build. So hold your wallets at least till next patch to see where things are going with that.
I asked rep to clarify this on forum, so there is no confusion.
Nothing against Halion SE besides the fact that the free version has no sounds. But I was happy with what I had and didn't feel it necessary to look for something else.
Since 2021 and its little default Synth problems, I've tried a few. First of course the Sforzando, the Coyote and then the TTS. And I finally went with the Halion Sonic, which does everything wonderfully well and without any hassle. And suddenly, I started listening to a lot of Midi, SuperTrack midi, and really, it's much nicer than I imagined. I stayed on my big collection of RT so I completely discover this production with great pleasure.
To summarize, I had Sonic for some time but I did not know at all that he could serve as GM in Biab plugins. So thank you to this forum which opened my eyes to this possibility and a few others.
musicstudent. firstly let me say i only want the very best for you and our fellow pg users. we are all in the same boat. so lets debate . THE ROOT ISSUE FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL IS : PG USERS WANT IN BIAB VERY TASTY SOUNDS TO BE GENERATED FROM MIDI TRAKS. CORRECT ?? non pg users want the same as daw plug ins.
believe it or not , people, includeing myself BEFORE REALTRAKS came on the scene, wanted the SAME, etc. the ISSUE has been around for donkeys years way back to the all midi biab days early on. pg have known about the issue for ages. loads of user posts over the years re "tasty sounds". loads of frustration, not pg's fault. the fault lay with computer architectures. AND remember , back in those days the computers were way less powerfull than today. i can remember mucking around on an atari st. lol. as the computers became more powerfull , RT's were introduced. this was very responsible of pg imho. (and i suspect RT's were introduced, because of the big demand for better tastier sounds. a brilliant marketing move imho.)
my goodness , i was asking pg way way back for better tastier sounds. i wanted the same as your goodself. however i realised, at that time, trying to cram all the sounds of a multi thousand dollar synth rig set up , in software was asking a bit much. at that time, often people used external midi modules outputting sounds from midi into line mixers/consoles etc , and often onto tape multitraks etc etc. drove people nuts often. people today still spend minor trust fund amounts on hardware synths that i would love but can never afford due to other family needs. like eating lol.
so, what to do ?? in a thread recently , if you notice simon (from pg, and he can correct me if i am wrong) commented that most pg users use the features provided by biab. THUS ITS APPARENT TO ME THAT IF PG COULD FURNISH US WITH TASTY SOUNDS BUILT INTO BIAB THEY WOULD. i dont think they are being mean in not doing so. from reading threads , it seems their concern is being able to accommodate all types of users , includeing ones with low power pc rigs. not everyone is running xeons/threadrippers/i9's. some people are running old pc's.
i'm just trying to put it all in perspective musicstudent, and i KNOW its frustrating. (yes i know all about the coyote sounds. thats why mainly i use plug ins for midi traks in a daw.)
but perhaps if you told everyone what tasty sounds your looking for , it might help narrow things down. is it special fx ? , synths ?, orchestral sounds ? more unique drum sounds ? nature sounds ? what sounds ?
and of course there are loads of free plug ins on the net.
best. muso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
Muso, With all due respect, you are making this way too complicated and going way beyond the current topic and at the same time peaching to the choir. I am afraid my quires here are being misunderstood due to the mixing of multiple threads - my bad. It all started here: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=629423#Post629423 and I should have never started this separate thread.
Quote:
I just want the same GM soft synth in BIAB2021 that I had one weeks ago in BIAB 2020.
I you're right about your initial request of getting the same GM soft synth in BIAB2021 that I had two weeks ago in BIAB 2020: I have no idea why the latest 2021 install took out a VSTi, that sounds very weird to me.
I also think the Muso has a very valid point in that you are not going to get pristine sounds using any GM sound source, however this may not be the thread to explain it.
Muso, your workflow is virtually like mine for the identical reasons.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer. It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
musicstudent. i didnt see your other thread. apologies. it might be a daft question, but, out of curiosity, what do your default preferences show in biab ? coyote ? could you do a screenshot of prefs ? i'm really not trying to be an arguing idiot. and i will defer to mario, immho the midi king.
mario. yep you and i have the same procedure. see if you agree with the following mario.
i feel this whole problem of users needing decent gm sounds rises up from time to time , cos pg built so many neat midi editing and other features in biab. eg features like the event editor, notation and piano roll etc etc. and many others. and they were just trying to keep users happy etc etc.
but then along came the powerfull vsti plug ins. so some users are tempted to start plugging the often powerfull plugins into biab, without maybe realising there IS a resource impact. thus some crash threads ive seen over the years on these and other user recording forums. which is why ive argued in biab wishlist for certain user protection schemes be built into biab and rb. i mean there are glorious plug ins out there. BUT they need processing cycles. and they are doing a lot in the background often. which might impact biab RT generations. because they are takeing the midi data in and synthesising sound output.
(btw thanks for the kramer comments.)
merry xmas to you both. muso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
If you want full control over GM (program / bank change) and good->better sounds I think there are only two software products that will do that as VST that you can get creative with.(except for older, pretty much outdated TTS1 and Roland soundcanvas)
VSTSynthfont, which came with 2020- and hopefully returns for free, at least for the users who had it. It is great because it has small footprint, many tweakable parameters. Accepts full SF2 banks in a single or multiple files. You can get GM compatible SF2 banks at 20 megs or 10 gb... paid or free. Or even build your own.
Halion Sonic. Good, solid set of sounds, especially in full version, nice interface. Downside is tricky to get your sounds in. Almost no 3rd party libriraies. With full Halion I believe you can do it (use your own SF2 banks), but not very intuitively.
There is one other, If I am not mistaken by falconsoft (that does program/bank changes) but not as tweakable and flexible as the two above and development stopped about 10 years ago.
mario. yep you and i have the same procedure. see if you agree with the following mario.
i feel this whole problem of users needing decent gm sounds rises up from time to time , cos pg built so many neat midi editing and other features in biab. eg features like the event editor, notation and piano roll etc etc. and many others. and they were just trying to keep users happy etc etc.
but then along came the powerfull vsti plug ins. so some users are tempted to start plugging the often powerfull plugins into biab, without maybe realising there IS a resource impact. thus some crash threads ive seen over the years on these and other user recording forums. which is why ive argued in biab wishlist for certain user protection schemes be built into biab and rb. i mean there are glorious plug ins out there. BUT they need processing cycles. and they are doing a lot in the background often. which might impact biab RT generations. because they are takeing the midi data in and synthesising sound output.
(btw thanks for the kramer comments.)
merry xmas to you both. muso.
I agree, although I think we should start another thread and not hijack this one.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer. It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Well look what came back with the current build released today. If you look close the "sounds" are the original Coyote Forte Dxi which are the GM sounds I have used for the past 2 decades. Maybe that helps explain why I was upset. These may not be the very best GM available but they are the very best that I care to have. And just to close the loop here. I have deleted Halion Sonic SE.
So I go to delete the free HelionSE - low and behold there is a ton of content installed which looks like sounds that I never found or saw when I installed it.
Just an FYI to thoroughly confuse any others who come this way.
Yea - welcome to the world of BLOAT (and it's not just Steinberg either)
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
so is this https://www.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/ a no go to use as a general midi vst in BIAB or any other DAW? Sounds confusing, who says there's no sounds, who says it sounds great.. can't make heads or tails....
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