PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Songwriting When do you know that you have written a good song?

Index

Print Thread

Go To

Page 3 of 3

Re: When do you know that you have written a good song? Guitarhacker #643360 02/21/21 04:52 PM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2020 Posts: 309 H Henry Clarke Journeyman
Henry Clarke Journeyman H Joined: Apr 2020 Posts: 309	Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker Originally Posted By: Henry Clarke No offense guys but I think I'm in my own lane on this one. It seems like a lot of folks in the forum think a "good" song is a "Sad" song. In my view nothing is further from the truth. I think a good song is a song that resonates with the audience. Generates a "connection" whether that be Happy, Sad, Argumentative, introspective, etc... When you've written a song where the listener sings the "Hook" subconsciously as it's playing. Not the verse but the hook. There are lots of uptempo songs that are GREAT songs played worldwide. Think Earth Wind, Fire, Chicago, Hall and Oates, etc... Those musicians still generate thousands in royalties every year because they make folks feel good when they hear them. And "NO Pianobilly, I respectably disagree. I think you need more than a pencil and paper and musical education to write a good song. That may work in your genre but there are lots of genres where its just not the case. Some songs are great because of the drum beat, guitar riff, horn section, etc.. and of course if the song is vocal driven nothing makes a song resonate like a great vocal performance. You can have the best lyrics in the world (which few listeners really care about) but if the vocal stinks the song stinks. That's just sad but true. There's that old American Bandstand adage ... "It's got a good beat and you can dance to it" :-) I have a song that's trending worldwide on iTunes, Deezer, and Amazon and Spotify right now. It's not BIAB. The vocals are flat and not balanced, the mix is average, the song is a bit silly but it's resonating purely because of the hook and the positive energy. I've received a lot of great comments. I thought the song was ok but audiences are connecting and telling me they think it's pretty good. http://itunes.apple.com/album/id1454291240?ls=1&app=itunes https://www.amazon.com/Roll-With-It/dp/B...lMMIbLzEEbkZmyw https://open.spotify.com/track/4ZVYqEGzUOJTgGyOcWEE6q?si=4a1f8327225c4f3b Because of the response I "think" I've written a good song :-) Hope this message doesn't rub anyone the wrong way. It's just an opinion from another perspective. The funny thing Henry is.... I went to a songwriting forum in LA back in 2009 I think it was....it was put on by TAXI and it's done yearly. It's called the Rode Rally and one of the things they did in one of the many classes there was to examine the hit, meaning #1 songs of the past year. They broke them down by tempo, key, topic etc.... to get a feel for what the people were listening to and liking, so that we as writers had a better idea what we should be writing. For years, I've heard it said.... you need to write uptempo happy songs. Stay away from the sad slow stuff and especially the ballads. Don't write ballads because no one wants to sing them or listen to them. Well, this survey decided that the majority of the last years #1 hits for that year were in fact over 50% ballads and a number of those were sad songs. Herb, I don't disagree with you. I'm sure you're totally correct with what they said. But that was 2009. Also I would like to say that (and this is a guess) even if over 50% were number 1 I'm willing to guess that the majority of the top 10 were not. I did a quick check on Top 100 singles for 2009 and the chart was dominated by people like Black-Ryed Peas, Kanye, Beyonce, Lady GaGa, Flo Rida, etc.. Not exactly ballad folks. For example (and I know this is Billboard) but of the top 100 longest leading number one hits of all time only 3 were ballads (Mariah Carey, Adele, and Elton). For 2020 of the top 10 songs (Billboard) I think only 2 were ballads. My comment was not about number one songs but more based on the performance of songs overall.

Re: When do you know that you have written a good song? Peters Garage #643413 02/22/21 02:00 AM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,682 South Carolina C Charlie Fogle Veteran
Charlie Fogle Veteran C Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,682 South Carolina	<< When do you know that you have written a good song? >> According to the numbers, statistics and put up by both Mr. Henry and Herb, unquestionably the elite and standout best songs are ballads. The charts are dominated by people like Black-Eyed Peas, Kanye, Beyoncé, Lady Gaga, and Flo Rida who are the best 'talent' that corporate music can buy and produce. Mariah Carey, Adele, and Elton each have an extensive list of songwriting credits and stand tall alone as the top 3% of such a huge and lucrative market. That's indistinguishable from the economic one percenters that have most of the money... By the numbers and the performance of songs overall as you guys have detailed, 50-97% of songs that are 'good' have great hooks, beat, feel or sometimes lyrics. The elite songs are ballads. BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

Re: When do you know that you have written a good song? Charlie Fogle #643453 02/22/21 06:46 AM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2020 Posts: 309 H Henry Clarke Journeyman
Henry Clarke Journeyman H Joined: Apr 2020 Posts: 309	Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle << When do you know that you have written a good song? >> According to the numbers, statistics and put up by both Mr. Henry and Herb, unquestionably the elite and standout best songs are ballads. The charts are dominated by people like Black-Eyed Peas, Kanye, Beyoncé, Lady Gaga, and Flo Rida who are the best 'talent' that corporate music can buy and produce. Mariah Carey, Adele, and Elton each have an extensive list of songwriting credits and stand tall alone as the top 3% of such a huge and lucrative market. That's indistinguishable from the economic one percenters that have most of the money... By the numbers and the performance of songs overall as you guys have detailed, 50-97% of songs that are 'good' have great hooks, beat, feel or sometimes lyrics. The elite songs are ballads. Charlie Fogle, Herb Hartley - Thanks for the replies. The discussion is great. My only position was that I felt that "GOOD" songs (which was the subject at hand) do not have to be sad songs and it "appeared" that most of the responses in the forum were based on sad songs. My only point was that I think a "GOOD" song is a song that creates a "connection" with the listener and that did not necessarily mean "sad". It could mean a lot of other feelings. Like you said Charlie: "great hooks, beat, feel, etc.." One thing I will say is that Ballads do tend to stand the test of time whereas uptempo songs are snapshots and don't usually have the same "shelf life" as beats change, tempos change, etc.. Also usually ballads that stand of test of time usually have truly outstanding vocalists. Uptempo songs .. not so much :-)

Re: When do you know that you have written a good song? Henry Clarke #643467 02/22/21 08:31 AM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,682 South Carolina C Charlie Fogle Veteran
Charlie Fogle Veteran C Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,682 South Carolina	I absolutely agree 100% Mr. Henry. There have been plenty of songs written, arranged, produced, performed and posted here on the PG Music Forum that were constructed with BIAB audio content that had they had the support, backing and push from corporate commercial record labels could be and would be in the Billboard top 100. I think a "GOOD" song is a song that creates a "connection" not only with the listener, but also that has a connection with a major label distributor. BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

Re: When do you know that you have written a good song? Charlie Fogle #643588 02/22/21 11:31 PM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,835 Sillie Con Valley, California Mike Halloran Expert
Mike Halloran Expert Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,835 Sillie Con Valley, California	Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle … There have been plenty of songs written, arranged, produced, performed and posted here on the PG Music Forum that were constructed with BIAB audio content that had they had the support, backing and push from corporate commercial record labels could be and would be in the Billboard top 100. … That model, unfortunately, is dead. If you want to make money in this business, you have to do it yourself. BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5

Re: When do you know that you have written a good song? Peters Garage #643643 02/23/21 06:19 AM Songwriting
Joined: Aug 2018 Posts: 1,381 Tangmo Expert
Tangmo Expert Joined: Aug 2018 Posts: 1,381	How my immediate friends and family react is certainly not unimportant or meaningless to me. The earliest music criticism I received was from my grandmother, commenting on a song I'd written before my age was in double digits. I was certain the thing would change the world of music and the lives of millions. She said it was "cute". She was much more right than I was. If there is any remembrance of that piece of song-writing, it remains only that it was cute. The rest of it is long forgotten even by the boy who wrote it, save a couple of lines--and he can't remember at all how it went. Then there was that year when I was more filled with naïve enthusiasm than today, and gifted my entire Christmas shopping list with a full-to-the-brim CD of originals. It may be true that they were accepted with strained smiles and atta-boys designed to encourage my enthusiasm (or at least shield me from embarrassment), but I have no illusions that they were received by anyone with any more genuine appreciation than if they had been handed a pair of red Christmas socks...and enjoyed just as often (once or less) before being shoved to the back of the sock drawer. Out of a mixture of guilt and pity. So it means a lot to me when any member of my most apathetic yet reachable audience has and can name and sing (or dance) along with a personal favorite. That's very good indeed. No, the most unreliable audience response comes from those with something to sell. Last edited by Tangmo; 02/23/21 01:14 PM. Reason: proofread BIAB 2021 Audiophile. Windows 10 64bit. Songwriter, lyricist, composer(?) loving all styles. Some pre-BIAB music from Farfetched Tangmo Band's first CD. https://alonetone.com/tangmo/playlists/close-to-the-ground

Go To

Page 3 of 3

Moderated by Andrew - PG Music, PeterGannon

Link Copied to Clipboard

ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News

August 06, 2025

Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!

It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!

We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!

Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:

Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!

Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!

July 27, 2025

New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!

We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!

Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!

Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.

Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles

Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)

And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.

You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.

Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!

The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!

July 23, 2025

Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!

With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!

These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!

This Free Bonus PAK includes:

The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK: -For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles. -For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles. -For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.

Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:

20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe

Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!

July 21, 2025

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

July 21, 2025

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!

Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

July 21, 2025

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

July 21, 2025

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

More News