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THE FUTURE OF SONGWRITING.
heres an interesting "quandary" ive often discussed with fellow musos/songwriters.
and i'm interested in what pg users opinions are.
SCENARIO.
a songwriter innocently writes a new song. completely unaware there is a "similar" song out there in the ether.
the quandary is, one cant spend millenia searching high and low to see if there is a similar song to the one that has just been written.
of course there are only so many keys/notes/chords/inversions/extensions etc etc.
given the above, and the fact that someone could "pop up" at any time and say "hey buddy" "thats the same as my (insert song name) song".
WILL PEOPLE IN THE FUTURE BE EAGER TO WRITE NEW SONGS ?
there is a "scaredness factor" at play here dont you think // legal worry ?
i'm thinking of the next generation of songwriters/young uns coming up.
how are they going to deal with this issue ?
AND will it mean loss of lots of new interesting songs
to the music consumer because , concern that the heirs to a song made many years ago, suddenly pop up and claim this new song is the same as their grandfathers. for example.
there are other ramifications as well, includeing the fact that if people are scared to write a song , they wont buy "music gear" possibly. thus job impacts in manufacturing.
thoughts ?
best.
muso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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I hear ya... and as a writer, I've thought about that.... however.....
Yep, there's a chance that you might write something that sounds like something else.... the big question is....
Did the other one become a big hit and make a lot of money or, did your original song that sounds like something else make a lot of money? If the answer is NO.... there's no problem... life goes on.
If the answer is YES.... then the realm of possibilities is pretty wide open. You're likely to meet judges and lawyers and all sorts of folks you would never have met otherwise... but that depends on a few people connected to the original song. Look up the lawsuits of the past. George Harrison with My Sweet Lord, millions changed hands over 3 notes.... but then again, I thought that Lady A's Need you now was a dead ringer copy to Parson's Eye in the Sky, but apparently not.
Heck, it comes down to this.... write your song and don't worry about the fall out that "might" happen.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Absolutely nothing to worry about unless your song is generating substantial income. Absolutely nothing.
Think about it....why would I go to the expense of suing you for infringement unless there's royalties to be claimed? A copyright infringement case costs a minimum of $20k to litigate. Why would I spend that money unless there was a heck of a lot more on the table to be gained?
99.9% of the infringement cases are brought by people who wrote songs that are generating little to no income, suing people who have a big hit. No one in their right mind is going to sue someone for a similar sounding song on an independent project, or even an album cut on most major artists. It's simply not worth the time & hassle, when all you'll accomplish is proving a point.
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I've thought about this too, actually. I talked about with another musician friend of mine, and he said he wouldn't be surprised if it led to music getting more and more experimental so as to be impossible to distinguished as having elements from other songs. I don't entirely agree with him, but it's an interesting thought.
Cheers,
Deryk
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End copyright on melodies it will be wide open music for the masses
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That's never going to happen.
Ever.
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End copyright on melodies it will be wide open music for the masses No. It only means that big internet will continue to steal at will — only legally. Copyright exists to stimulate creativity. That you do not understand this is not only sad but causes you to give misinformation to others. George Harrison with My Sweet Lord, millions changed hands over 3 notes... Of all the misinformation I've read about this, that's the silliest. The person who sued bought the rights to He's So Fine for the sole purpose of filing that law suit. It wasn't over till Mr. Harrison bought the rights back for himself and his heirs. 99.9% of the infringement cases are brought by people who wrote songs The vast majority of Copyright cases are filed over maps. Mineral rights are big business. After that, in a distant 2nd place, is textbooks — where defendants learn that Fair Use doesn't mean what they think it does. Print plagiarism was 3rd, last I checked which was a few years ago. Music suits are relatively rare, as has been pointed out. Lots and lots of take-down notices… Copyright attorneys do not want for work.
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99.9% of the infringement cases are brought by people who wrote songs The vast majority of Copyright cases are filed over maps. Mineral rights are big business. After that, in a distant 2nd place, is textbooks — where defendants learn that Fair Use doesn't mean what they think it does. Print plagiarism was 3rd, last I checked which was a few years ago. Music suits are relatively rare, as has been pointed out. Lots and lots of take-down notices… Copyright attorneys do not want for work. [/quote] Way to misquote me out of context, Mike. I was VERY specifically referencing song/music infringement cases with the 99% number, and I'm absolutely correct on that. I never stated, or implied, that 99% of all copyright infringement cases were music related. Come on, man, you're better than this.
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I quoted you word for word. That you did not put it in context is your mistake, not mine.
Yes, I see that you have some experience here but your post was worded poorly. I was pointing that out. I see that you didn't understand this, either.
Your percentage is still wrong.
Otherwise, it's still January. The meaning of that will be clear if I post on this subject in February.
In the mean time, who's your PRO?
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Is it me, or do there appear to be fewer stars (in the sense we had become accustomed to regarding them,) in the sense of having dedicated fans and sold-out concerts, coveted television appearances, and all the signs of being larger-than-life than there were before the web, MP3, and all that? In related events, statistics show there are more people watching DIY commentators on the internet than giants like CNN.
The exceptions seem to be Nashville and Rap. What I am getting at is the change in the money. Artists don't seem to be hitting the jackpot with a #1 like they used to. Even Adam Smith in "Wealth of Nations" (1776) comments on the value of copyright as a protection against small publishers knocking off cheap repros of famous books. The governors argued that activity was discouraging the flow of ideas.
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I quoted you word for word. That you did not put it in context is your mistake, not mine.
Yes, I see that you have some experience here but your post was worded poorly. I was pointing that out. I see that you didn't understand this, either.
Your percentage is still wrong.
Otherwise, it's still January. The meaning of that will be clear if I post on this subject in February.
In the mean time, who's your PRO? You quoted a portion of a sentence, not the complete thought. Furthermore, the entire conversation was about music infringement. What the hell do any other infringement cases have to do with the discussion at hand? My point, which should have been clear, is that 99% of music infringement cases are brought against very successful songs that have generated a lot of money, not the ones that have only had a few thousand streams or sales. As for the rest of your snarky response ("I see you have some experience here"), do you really want to compare resumes? Because I'm happy to do so...I've made my living as a full time professional songwriter since 1985. As a matter of fact, you can see who I am by clicking on the NSAI link in my signature ( http://www.nashvillesongwriters.com/roger-brown). I'm on the board of directors, serving as the legislative co-chair, and have been lobbying in DC for songwriters for nearly two decades. I was actively involved in helping get the Music Modernization Act signed into law. So yes, I have a pretty solid handle on infringement issues and the profession of songwriting in general. The gold and platinum records hanging on my wall probably suggest I have a clue what I'm talking about as well. I don't like spouting off my credits or discography, because I've never been "that guy" but your patronizing, condescending tone ticks me off. All I attempted to do by responding to this thread in the first place was to assuage unnecessary concerns about being sued for plagiarism. If my thoughts and expertise aren't wanted or appreciated, I can certainly keep them to myself. Or if you don't like what I have to offer personally, feel free to put me on ignore. As to who my PRO is, I have no idea why that's at all relevant (or any of your damn business), but I have been with all three in my career at one time or another (ASCAP, SESAC, BMI) and I'm currently affiliated with BMI.
Last edited by Roger Brown; 01/26/21 01:45 PM.
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Is it me, or do there appear to be fewer stars (in the sense we had become accustomed to regarding them,) in the sense of having dedicated fans and sold-out concerts, coveted television appearances, and all the signs of being larger-than-life than there were before the web, MP3, and all that? In related events, statistics show there are more people watching DIY commentators on the internet than giants like CNN.
The exceptions seem to be Nashville and Rap. What I am getting at is the change in the money. Artists don't seem to be hitting the jackpot with a #1 like they used to. … William S. Gilbert may have said it best in 1890: “When everyone is somebody,
Then no one’s anybody.”(There Lived a King) from "The Gondoliers" To your other point, it's getting nigh impossible to make a decent living as a songwriter. Streaming pay sucks absolutely.
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<< Copyright exists to stimulate creativity. That you do not understand this is not only sad but causes you to give misinformation to others. >>
I've had to be away from posting on the Forum for a few weeks but I've pondered over this comment for a while now. I'm afraid I've missed the point and I don't understand either. I secured my first copyright in 1959 and I've copyrighted quite a few songs since then. I know quite a few songwriters and I've read many articles, listened to songwriters interviewed and so forth.
I have never heard anywhere at anytime, anyone say "I'm inspired to write a song because I know I can Copyright it." - Copyright is not a creative tool as far as I can determine. It's a legal protection for intellectual content.
Quote:
"George Harrison with My Sweet Lord, millions changed hands over 3 notes... "
<< Of all the misinformation I've read about this, that's the silliest. The person who sued bought the rights to He's So Fine for the sole purpose of filing that law suit. It wasn't over till Mr. Harrison bought the rights back for himself and his heirs. >>
I've again missed the point of contention here. Nothing in the reply contradicts the poster's quote as the post does not address the plaintiff's intentions to file the lawsuit but only the lawsuit's results, which in fact, Harrison paid millions.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 02/04/21 07:38 AM.
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Absolutely nothing to worry about unless your song is generating substantial income. Absolutely nothing.
Think about it....why would I go to the expense of suing you for infringement unless there's royalties to be claimed? A copyright infringement case costs a minimum of $20k to litigate. Why would I spend that money unless there was a heck of a lot more on the table to be gained?
99.9% of the infringement cases are brought by people who wrote songs that are generating little to no income, suing people who have a big hit. No one in their right mind is going to sue someone for a similar sounding song on an independent project, or even an album cut on most major artists. It's simply not worth the time & hassle, when all you'll accomplish is proving a point. Why go to the expense of filing an infringement lawsuit unless there's substantial royalties to be claimed? I believe there's actually quite a bit to worry about regardless of the amount of income the actual song in question is generating. Damages caused by an infringement can be much more than sales and play royalties. According to Business News Daily, possible consequences of intellectual property infringement that "Depending on the nature of the violations, penalties may include civil damages in the dollar amount of damages and lost profits, an injunction to stop the infringement, payment of the attorneys' fees by the infringer, and felony charges with prison time." There's also the issue of fair use that may have to be determined by litigation. Many people also have a strong sense of right and wrong values and their understanding that a person or entity has willingly and willfully wronged them and improperly used their intellectual material is motivation to threaten litigation. A person that feels they've been wronged and had their intellectual property stolen may be satisfied with a 7-10 year judgement from a small claims court knowing they've ruined the perpetrator's credit or had their wages garnished. The threat of litigation is a very powerful negotiation tool and is a very efficient and economical method to secure a monetary settlement. While I agree with you regarding your assertion that infringement cases are made by people that wrote a song that is generating little or no income filing a claim against artists and record companies that have a similar sounding song, the actual percentage of claims made that go into extended and expensive litigation and trial is a tiny percentage of the total claims filed. Corporations and celebrity artists that have great exposure retain full time attorneys to avoid allowing claims to expand into time consuming and expensive litigation and particularly trials. Thousands of claims are privately and quietly negotiated each year especially ones that have merit that while not gaining monumental cash settlements, the amount still may be thousands of dollars but considered a big win by Corporate when considered in relation to their potential exposure and payout.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 02/04/21 07:41 AM.
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Charlie, first of all, welcome back and best wishes to you.
You're absolutely incorrect on this. No one is going to file an infringement suit against someone when the song in question hasn't generated substantial income. It makes no sense to do so. I've been on both sides of this - I have had songs of mine infringed on, and I've received a letter from an attorney accusing me of infringement (falsely, for the record). Could I have sued some of them for infringement? You better believe it. But the people who ripped off my work didn't make any money to speak of for their trouble (a few hundred, maybe a few thousand dollars). I would never have recouped the cost of going to trial, or settling for that matter. Even in the non-litigated settlements, there are legal fees involved. It doesn't happen in a void, or for free. I'll make my point again...why would I sue someone for $10,000 if it costs me $30,000 to do it? And why would I try to negotiate an out-of-court settlement for $1,000 if it's going to cost me $2500-3000 to do so?
Send a threatening, C&D letter? Absolutely I'd do that. But it doesn't really have any teeth in it.
On the other hand, if someone infringes on one of my songs and has a big hit, big synch, etc (something where substantial royalties come in to play), of course I'd pursue litigation or a settlement. And if you think about it, those are the type situations you hear about/read about. It's either a "little guy" suing a "big guy" or a big guy suing another big guy. When's the last time you read, or even heard, about someone like Elton John suing Tex Nobody because poor ol' Tex wrote, recorded & released a song that sounds sort of like Yellow Brick Road and made a couple of hundred bucks?
The overarching point is this. You should absolutely do everything in your power as a writer/artist to avoid plagiarism. But if it happens, and your song has generated no income or very little income, no one is going to legally or financially come after you. They'll just very sternly notify you that they're aware of the infringing song and demand that you pull it down.
*also, you are incorrect in your comments regarding having someone's credit destroyed/wages garnished. The settlement on small infringements such as we are debating would be limited to the royalties generated by the infringing work. Unrelated work income has nothing to do with it. These cases have to be filed in U.S. District Court, not in small claims courts. Copyright is a Federal issue.
Last edited by Roger Brown; 02/04/21 08:02 AM.
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…
*also, you are incorrect in your comments regarding having someone's credit destroyed/wages garnished. The settlement on small infringements such as we are debating would be limited to the royalties generated by the infringing work. Unrelated work income has nothing to do with it. These cases have to be filed in U.S. District Court, not in small claims courts. Copyright is a Federal issue. Yep. Although many organizations would like the ability to seek remedies in small claims, the Federal court system reserves that for themselves. Without the protection of Copyright, there is no incentive for anyone except hobbyists to create. Sure, hobbyists can get distribution now but many of us were doing this before the internet and that horrible giveaway, the DMCA to Big Internet when it was only little internet. That the genie is out of the bottle doesn't make it right. Broadcast, music, records etc. all exist because their creators expect that their works can be protected. The fact that it's been so watered down nowadays does not change this. Quote:
"George Harrison with My Sweet Lord, millions changed hands over 3 notes... "
<< Of all the misinformation I've read about this, that's the silliest. The person who sued bought the rights to He's So Fine for the sole purpose of filing that law suit. It wasn't over till Mr. Harrison bought the rights back for himself and his heirs. >>
I've again missed the point of contention here. Yes, you did. Plenty of info on this hit job online. No need for me to regurgitate it here. It's now February. Retirement from my day job in the field of Copyrights enforcement is now complete. … do you really want to compare resumes? Because I'm happy to do so... Not on this subject. At least not publicly. Next time I'm in Nashville, perhaps.
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AI will be writing the songs in the future so it will be a moot point. 
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AI will be writing the songs in the future so it will be a moot point. We might be closer to that than we suppose. Given the saturation of broadcast media (radio and TV,) the internet, social media, and mass surveillance, it is quite possible the media already dictates what we think, what we feel, and when we feel it. Combined with feedback that never sleeps, it isn't too much of a reach to think distributors will deliver "those perfect songs, so relevent," to consumers (or performers) on a regular basis.
Last edited by edshaw; 02/13/21 02:03 PM.
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With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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