Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn

Thank you Simon! It is good to remind people that the first amendment is about the government being unable to prevent speech. It does not nor should not protect you from repercussions from hateful speech.


Absolutely!


Originally Posted By: Planobilly
Hi Simon,

I was going to go into the legal issues but changed my mind. I simply don't totally agree with your statements. What construes hate speech is totally dependent on context. Is the use of that word hate speech when Eddie Murphy used it in comedy? Do you see youtube taking down the thousands of videos that use that word?

I assume you are Canadian but that is only an assumption. I have a good bit of experience with eastern Canada and Newfoundland and know some of the slang and derogatory words used there.

"Hoser" for example without getting into some really rude words.

The classic Canadian insult. Originally refers to the losers of a hockey game, who, in pre-Zamboni times, would have to hose the rink down once the game was done. Now it’s a synonym for “loser” — but with a particularly Canadian flavour.

Plenty of fights have been started over that word. Plenty of people take serious exception to its use. Is it hate speech? It could be but only in a certain context.

Look, I am not a proponent of using any of the millions of derogatory words. I have played in a all black blues band all my life and I am well aware of how many black feel.

Discrimination is rampant across all races of people and black people have suffered more than most. Well, if you exclude the American Indians and the Jewish.

What is insulting is having some jerk taking video in the middle of the night of some drunk guy and using it to try to destroy a man's life, plus his kid, plus his wife/girlfriend.

I can also guarantee this thread never was and never will be about music.

Cheers,

Billy


You're absolutely right - speech in itself is completely dependent on context. You could call me an idiot and I'd probably feel insulted, but if my lover called me an idiot it might feel endearing. That's exactly how it is with the N-word - black people have taken back that word and use it to empower themselves, but if a white person like me uses that word it would be horribly insulting, racist, and can constitute hate speech. You can't take words like the N-word and say "oh these people are using it, it's ok for me to use it" because I'm certain you would be angry if a person of colour used a racial slur against white people. Words like "Hoser" can't be compared to the N-word in this case, because Hoser has never been a racial slur.

Drunk people are not excused their actions (while driving, for example), so they should not be excused for their words either. Words matter, and most often what comes out while drunk is their true feelings. Hate while drunk is still hate, much like violence while drunk is still violence.

Politics and music go hand in hand, all the time. Rock and roll was built on politics - so was rap, metal, jazz, country, etc. Regardless, this thread is in the "off topic" section, so non-music discussion is allowed and encouraged here.


Originally Posted By: bobcflatpicker
It's never surprising how many old white guys get upset when you bring up racism. They try to immediately shut you up. The responses are predictable about how "it's not that bad" or "it's better than it used to be" or my favorite, "the media is blowing it all out of proportion!"

Everyone on the forum remembers Mac, (except for some newbies), and we became good long distance friends over the years. What a few may not know is that Mac is black.

During more more than a few of our marathon phone calls to each other we discussed racism. It was the first time in my life where I'd been fortunate enough to hear first hand about the personal experiences of a black man who lived through the 50's, 60's, 70's and forward.

People need to stop dismissing racism as if it was something from the past.

It's alive and well, even in the music industry.


Thank you Bob! Racism is as much in the present as in the past - let's not make Racism a part of the future.

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