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Edited..
Last edited by rharv; 03/13/10 06:14 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Here's an idea..
This is clearly a group of thinkers who have strong opinions on various topics. I don't want to see the discussion end, but it could be that this PARTICULAR topic is in danger of making enemies out of people who would otherwise enjoy the fellowship of a shared hobby.
So, to keep discussion alive I am starting a new thread on another less-controversial topic: the search for excellence vs the search for equality. I hope people will particpate there as they have here.
This doesn't mean the party here is over by any means. May we all continue to post as long as we have something to say.
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Citaat:
To All,
I value this discussion, because ALL of us have made points which to some may consider to be valid. The other thing is that I've seen no name calling, no personal attacks, or denigration of others as I've seen in other threads.
I too enjoy this debate. Unlike other (non musical) threads I've seen on this forum this is a mature and open discussion. You can oppose another person's point of view but you always have to respect their right to have his/her point of view. Learn from other persons views and decide for yourself what you think is right.
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Mike,
I couldn't agree more Mike. There will always be "non-musical" threads on here as long as people are able to type.
We just need to keep it civil.
Take care,
Bob
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Quote:
MI is also a 'shall issue' state, meaning they have the burden of a reason to not give the permit. Pretty specific reasons required. However, open carry in a vehicle is illegal here, it has to be in a case, preferably with lock on case or trigger.
I'm also from Michigan. I'm also a legal, carrying citizen -- have been for half a century.
"... AND shall be placed in the back seat or trunk ... AND all ammo locked in the glove compartment ..."
Where the heck are they going with this?
Maybe the ammo's far enough away from getting into a gun chamber that by the time it takes to do so ... cooler minds might prevail? Is / was that perhaps their thinking?
Of course the guy in Cass Corridor, Michigan driving by me with his 45 pointed at me knows EXACTLY where my ammo is 'cause our legislature has protected him from me! Right? On the other hand, does he REALLY know where my ammo is ???
True enough, I am a DISABLED citizen of Michigan but I am not, nor will I ever be, an UNABLED or disadvantaged citizen. Not any more. Trust me, my protection is IS NOT my cell phone, nor is it a 911 operator! Here's hoping all those guys are making beautiful music tonight instead of 'cruising'. I know, not likely!
Ike
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These types of vehicle laws are to designed to prevent road rage actions and also to protect officers.
I know, I know, the criminals are the ones not following the laws to begin with, so the officers aren't safer..
however if an officer sees the firearm mis-handled this way he needs no more reason than that to bring you in, whether you pointed it at him or not.
Understand, vehicles are not private, they are public. If you choose to violate that law you better be real careful not get pulled over. You will likely lose any firearm permits and worse yet there is a good chance you will be drawn upon. Trust me, it is not a good feeling.
I was involved in a case of mistaken identity (license plate number only) and was drawn upon by state and local in Texas. Long story short, all charges were thrown out, but it IS something I will remember. Whoever they were after, they were serious about catching. I counted four firearms pointed directly at me.
I'm sure this isn't helping the 'pro-gun' cause, but I thought I would warn you from my experience. I did not possess firearms back then (only 20 yrs old).
When I went before the judge one of the officers said "He got out of the car and immediately put his hands up so he knew something was going on" Well- DUH! Even if I HAD been the guy they were after, who doesn't know what to do in that situation??
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Bob, Your comment about vehicles being public, not private, at least as far as guns go, seems to be coming under fire. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008926967_aptexasgunbill.htmlhttp://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/arti...in-cars-at-workhttp://www.wlwt.com/news/22750863/detail.htmlhttp://inform.com/united-states/fla-guns-work-law-upheld-federal-judge-208573aFYI, in the state of Washington, if you have a CCW, you may keep a loaded weapon in the car, anywhere you want it. If you do NOT have a CCW, you may transport an unloaded weapon Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Yeah, the post right before mine was from ikeinblackriver who also is in Michigan.
So we were staying with those laws in the above couple posts.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I know, Bob, but many states have the same type of rules that you do, and it is possible that even Michigan will have changes coming in the future. Who knows.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Oh, OK, I see now what you were saying.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Shoot, when I saw the header of this thread I thought you were talking about open-container laws. I really miss being able to keep an open beer between my legs while driving around.
- Bud
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rharv, not sure i worded it right or if i missed putting the right words together here ... I am a law-abiding, carrying citizen of Michigan. I've never drawn down on anybody in my life, but I have seen the what the inside of a barrel looks like ...
My wife, myself and my 4-year old grandson were coming back from a trip to Cedar Point in Ohio. We were driving north to our home at night driving through a nasty part of Detroit -- pulled off the freeway to get gas, pulled out of the drive the wrong direction, got turned around somehow and had trouble finding the interstate and next thing ... I'm asking for directions in a neighborhood I'd rather not remember. Anyhow, I stop to ask for help at a BP gas station and a car with 4 guys in it pulls in as I'm walking out to my car and points a long-barrel revolver out the window at my wife and grandson. Yep, laughing their as*** off too! My wife cried over that issue. My grandson cried because my wife was so upset. Wife still will not travel with me if I've got to go anywhere near Detroit and my grandson, now 9 tells us he actually remembers the episode. The cop tells me, "Well, by now those boys are home in bed." The officer is telling me I guess that I wasted my time reporting it and I deserved it because I shouldn't be in this neighborhood at night and well, "... they're just boys." After my own research, I sent a long letter to the police chief of Detroit and to the station chief in that neighborhood. I / we never received a phone call or even a letter. Yes, my attitude has soured. I won't wait for someone to protect my family ever again. I have two friends that are state troopers and another, a chief of police for a community close to 200,000 north of Detroit. All of them have told me privately that if it were them, they would not hesitate ... they would protect first and answer questions later. They, themselves don't do anything different (you're not gonna wait and see if the guy's gonna pull the trigger -- not if you want to go home at night). My feelings are exactly the same as my three offer-friends. I get bashed lots because of my feelings about this (I express them freely these days), but it doesn't bother me anymore -- I'm too old to think like that anymore. I can take the criticism. The laws simply don't protect all of us and they've had plenty of time to get it right. Until I'm satisfied that the law will in fact protect me and my family, I'll still carry (and I'll be ready), and I'm hoping that the guys who drew on my family that evening read things like this ... they should know that the next time, I won't wait to see if they're gonna pull the trigger -- joke or not.
So parents (or relation) of these kids, I suggest you keep those kids home where the ought to be! There are plenty of people who feel just the way I do and you wouldn't want your loved-one not coming home some night because of a stupid prank (pointing a weapon at somebody). It happens a lot more frequently than you think it does.
Ike
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Quote:
Quote:
USA is not a democracy, it is a democratic republic.
(Marc said)
I’m sorry, but you’ve lost me completely here.
‘Democracy’ means (very broadly) that it is the people who decide who they are governed by using some form of fair voting system. Surely, this applies to the US of A?
The only democratic republic I am aware of is the DRC, not much of a model for anyone!
Hi Marc
Just a clarification on the theory. Am not pushing this view. Only reciting the theory.
Pure democracy-- "two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner." Or one could turn it around-- "two sheep and a wolf voting who will starve to death". But after you add realistic zeros to the numeric quantities, it gets more bizarre. In the USA 300 million population, a pure democracy could be "150,000,001 wolves and 149,999,999 sheep voting on dinner." Just the tiniest majority would grant right of the majority to totally victimize the minority.
The USA founders were students of history and the theories were discussed at length back then. It was generally acknowledged that historically pure democracies had not persisted very long. It was also generally acknowledged that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". If a 150,000,001 slim majority gets absolute power over the other 149,999,999, it would corrupt just as thoroughly as the corruption of a sole Nero or Caligula. Mob rule.
The republic idea is to divide power into many places so that nobody gets anywhere near absolute power.
* A constitution which enumerates certain things that NO level of government can do to the citizens.
* Enumerate powers that Feds can do, versus powers conferred on states, counties, cities.
* Split the Fed into three relatively co-equal branches. Rock paper scissors. Judicial, Executive, Legislative. The guys who write the law can't enforce the law. The guy who enforces the law can't write the law. The guy who spends the money can't allocate the funds from the treasury. The guy who collects taxes can't set the tax rate. etc.
* States and most counties/cities have similar power decentralization.
* Set up the rules so that NOTHING can be done quickly. Have rules requiring a lot of time and effort to change anything big. I see this as the same as a damping time constant in a feedback electronic circuit. If an electronic control circuit responds too quickly, it tends to over-track and oscillate. You avoid the oscillation by slowing down its slew rate, its speed of response. In government, allows cooler heads to prevail (in theory).
Unfortunately, people have been busy for the last 234 years gradually removing many of the safeguards, so we get closer to a true democracy all the time. And democracies historically do not last a very long time.
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What is it that you "lock" before you load? I've heard that many times.
I've only fired a few guns a few times. I just loaded them then fired.
- Bud
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James,
Excellent summary! One of the best I've ever read!
Regarding our system of checks and balances: I'm not so sure about the supreme court.
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....I would guess, lock the clip (magazine) in place then load that first bullet in the chamber.
Like the Marines say..."When in doubt...Unload the Magazine!"
Hopefully you've locked the magazine
in place before you proceed to unload it all, if necessary.
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Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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Supreme court was set up to decide on issues that are not defined and need to be. Somebody has to have final say (using the constitution as a guide). I am glad we do not elect these justices, they are appointed by the person we elect as president but only when a spot becomes available, like one of them retires (or dies).
I wouldn't want them elected, or to have the ability to influence their decisions in other ways (lobbying etc) or rotated with each administration. I think it's a pretty good setup. What issue do you have with it Pat?
As I mentioned, someone has to have the final say on interpretation of law. Checks and balances are great, but there will always be a need for a final decision. I don't necessarily agree with every decision they make, but I don't think I could come up with a better system.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Pat, I tend to agree with Bob on this one. Because there are nine justices, all serving very long terms, a good cross section of represented. We have Conservative leaning justices, and we have liberal justices, and while they may not agree, they can present differing opinions across the board. They also can not help but influencing one another, over time. I *could* come up with a better system....but no one but me would like it.  Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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The best description I've ever read concerning the Supreme Court:
"Nine scorpions in a bottle"
Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall....
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I had my moment in Flint, but driving past places in Detroit or Chicago and I just said, John, don't go there. But I was running out of gas. Went through 10 red lights, dudes standing round burned out buildings.
Downtown Toronto has had 3 or 4 people shot in the last 10 years, but I meet Americans all the time there, (the wife and I are going up on Sunday), and they all say the same thing.
1. It's so clean.
2. It's so safe.
Oh well.
If they came here it would be better.
I miss the trips to Romeo, Port Huron, and the other 3 places north of there we paraded as a drum corps, until the fortress America thing came to be, and they took you sandwiches, came in the bus with drawn guns, and kept us if we took our cars for 2 to 4 hours to get in.
I'll still go once in a while, but it has to be a week or longer, 'cause I'm not sitting at customs and getting treated like a terrorist. I have a grey beard, and mustache, no hair, and never even had a ticket. In almost 50 years of driving, only been pulled over once. Cop told me my tire was going flat.
I wish someone would make a gps map with colours, green for ok, blue for maybe ok, orange for maybe not and red for never. That would be good. There might be 400,000 people here, but I need no map to tell me you can go out anywhere at night. Toronto, maybe not, stay our of Scarberia.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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