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Edited..
Last edited by rharv; 03/13/10 05:14 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Here's an idea..
This is clearly a group of thinkers who have strong opinions on various topics. I don't want to see the discussion end, but it could be that this PARTICULAR topic is in danger of making enemies out of people who would otherwise enjoy the fellowship of a shared hobby.
So, to keep discussion alive I am starting a new thread on another less-controversial topic: the search for excellence vs the search for equality. I hope people will particpate there as they have here.
This doesn't mean the party here is over by any means. May we all continue to post as long as we have something to say.
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Citaat:
To All,
I value this discussion, because ALL of us have made points which to some may consider to be valid. The other thing is that I've seen no name calling, no personal attacks, or denigration of others as I've seen in other threads.
I too enjoy this debate. Unlike other (non musical) threads I've seen on this forum this is a mature and open discussion. You can oppose another person's point of view but you always have to respect their right to have his/her point of view. Learn from other persons views and decide for yourself what you think is right.
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Mike,
I couldn't agree more Mike. There will always be "non-musical" threads on here as long as people are able to type.
We just need to keep it civil.
Take care,
Bob
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Quote:
MI is also a 'shall issue' state, meaning they have the burden of a reason to not give the permit. Pretty specific reasons required. However, open carry in a vehicle is illegal here, it has to be in a case, preferably with lock on case or trigger.
I'm also from Michigan. I'm also a legal, carrying citizen -- have been for half a century.
"... AND shall be placed in the back seat or trunk ... AND all ammo locked in the glove compartment ..."
Where the heck are they going with this?
Maybe the ammo's far enough away from getting into a gun chamber that by the time it takes to do so ... cooler minds might prevail? Is / was that perhaps their thinking?
Of course the guy in Cass Corridor, Michigan driving by me with his 45 pointed at me knows EXACTLY where my ammo is 'cause our legislature has protected him from me! Right? On the other hand, does he REALLY know where my ammo is ???
True enough, I am a DISABLED citizen of Michigan but I am not, nor will I ever be, an UNABLED or disadvantaged citizen. Not any more. Trust me, my protection is IS NOT my cell phone, nor is it a 911 operator! Here's hoping all those guys are making beautiful music tonight instead of 'cruising'. I know, not likely!
Ike
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These types of vehicle laws are to designed to prevent road rage actions and also to protect officers.
I know, I know, the criminals are the ones not following the laws to begin with, so the officers aren't safer..
however if an officer sees the firearm mis-handled this way he needs no more reason than that to bring you in, whether you pointed it at him or not.
Understand, vehicles are not private, they are public. If you choose to violate that law you better be real careful not get pulled over. You will likely lose any firearm permits and worse yet there is a good chance you will be drawn upon. Trust me, it is not a good feeling.
I was involved in a case of mistaken identity (license plate number only) and was drawn upon by state and local in Texas. Long story short, all charges were thrown out, but it IS something I will remember. Whoever they were after, they were serious about catching. I counted four firearms pointed directly at me.
I'm sure this isn't helping the 'pro-gun' cause, but I thought I would warn you from my experience. I did not possess firearms back then (only 20 yrs old).
When I went before the judge one of the officers said "He got out of the car and immediately put his hands up so he knew something was going on" Well- DUH! Even if I HAD been the guy they were after, who doesn't know what to do in that situation??
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Bob, Your comment about vehicles being public, not private, at least as far as guns go, seems to be coming under fire. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008926967_aptexasgunbill.htmlhttp://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/arti...in-cars-at-workhttp://www.wlwt.com/news/22750863/detail.htmlhttp://inform.com/united-states/fla-guns-work-law-upheld-federal-judge-208573aFYI, in the state of Washington, if you have a CCW, you may keep a loaded weapon in the car, anywhere you want it. If you do NOT have a CCW, you may transport an unloaded weapon Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Yeah, the post right before mine was from ikeinblackriver who also is in Michigan.
So we were staying with those laws in the above couple posts.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I know, Bob, but many states have the same type of rules that you do, and it is possible that even Michigan will have changes coming in the future. Who knows.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Oh, OK, I see now what you were saying.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Shoot, when I saw the header of this thread I thought you were talking about open-container laws. I really miss being able to keep an open beer between my legs while driving around.
- Bud
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rharv, not sure i worded it right or if i missed putting the right words together here ... I am a law-abiding, carrying citizen of Michigan. I've never drawn down on anybody in my life, but I have seen the what the inside of a barrel looks like ...
My wife, myself and my 4-year old grandson were coming back from a trip to Cedar Point in Ohio. We were driving north to our home at night driving through a nasty part of Detroit -- pulled off the freeway to get gas, pulled out of the drive the wrong direction, got turned around somehow and had trouble finding the interstate and next thing ... I'm asking for directions in a neighborhood I'd rather not remember. Anyhow, I stop to ask for help at a BP gas station and a car with 4 guys in it pulls in as I'm walking out to my car and points a long-barrel revolver out the window at my wife and grandson. Yep, laughing their as*** off too! My wife cried over that issue. My grandson cried because my wife was so upset. Wife still will not travel with me if I've got to go anywhere near Detroit and my grandson, now 9 tells us he actually remembers the episode. The cop tells me, "Well, by now those boys are home in bed." The officer is telling me I guess that I wasted my time reporting it and I deserved it because I shouldn't be in this neighborhood at night and well, "... they're just boys." After my own research, I sent a long letter to the police chief of Detroit and to the station chief in that neighborhood. I / we never received a phone call or even a letter. Yes, my attitude has soured. I won't wait for someone to protect my family ever again. I have two friends that are state troopers and another, a chief of police for a community close to 200,000 north of Detroit. All of them have told me privately that if it were them, they would not hesitate ... they would protect first and answer questions later. They, themselves don't do anything different (you're not gonna wait and see if the guy's gonna pull the trigger -- not if you want to go home at night). My feelings are exactly the same as my three offer-friends. I get bashed lots because of my feelings about this (I express them freely these days), but it doesn't bother me anymore -- I'm too old to think like that anymore. I can take the criticism. The laws simply don't protect all of us and they've had plenty of time to get it right. Until I'm satisfied that the law will in fact protect me and my family, I'll still carry (and I'll be ready), and I'm hoping that the guys who drew on my family that evening read things like this ... they should know that the next time, I won't wait to see if they're gonna pull the trigger -- joke or not.
So parents (or relation) of these kids, I suggest you keep those kids home where the ought to be! There are plenty of people who feel just the way I do and you wouldn't want your loved-one not coming home some night because of a stupid prank (pointing a weapon at somebody). It happens a lot more frequently than you think it does.
Ike
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Quote:
Quote:
USA is not a democracy, it is a democratic republic.
(Marc said)
I’m sorry, but you’ve lost me completely here.
‘Democracy’ means (very broadly) that it is the people who decide who they are governed by using some form of fair voting system. Surely, this applies to the US of A?
The only democratic republic I am aware of is the DRC, not much of a model for anyone!
Hi Marc
Just a clarification on the theory. Am not pushing this view. Only reciting the theory.
Pure democracy-- "two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner." Or one could turn it around-- "two sheep and a wolf voting who will starve to death". But after you add realistic zeros to the numeric quantities, it gets more bizarre. In the USA 300 million population, a pure democracy could be "150,000,001 wolves and 149,999,999 sheep voting on dinner." Just the tiniest majority would grant right of the majority to totally victimize the minority.
The USA founders were students of history and the theories were discussed at length back then. It was generally acknowledged that historically pure democracies had not persisted very long. It was also generally acknowledged that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". If a 150,000,001 slim majority gets absolute power over the other 149,999,999, it would corrupt just as thoroughly as the corruption of a sole Nero or Caligula. Mob rule.
The republic idea is to divide power into many places so that nobody gets anywhere near absolute power.
* A constitution which enumerates certain things that NO level of government can do to the citizens.
* Enumerate powers that Feds can do, versus powers conferred on states, counties, cities.
* Split the Fed into three relatively co-equal branches. Rock paper scissors. Judicial, Executive, Legislative. The guys who write the law can't enforce the law. The guy who enforces the law can't write the law. The guy who spends the money can't allocate the funds from the treasury. The guy who collects taxes can't set the tax rate. etc.
* States and most counties/cities have similar power decentralization.
* Set up the rules so that NOTHING can be done quickly. Have rules requiring a lot of time and effort to change anything big. I see this as the same as a damping time constant in a feedback electronic circuit. If an electronic control circuit responds too quickly, it tends to over-track and oscillate. You avoid the oscillation by slowing down its slew rate, its speed of response. In government, allows cooler heads to prevail (in theory).
Unfortunately, people have been busy for the last 234 years gradually removing many of the safeguards, so we get closer to a true democracy all the time. And democracies historically do not last a very long time.
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What is it that you "lock" before you load? I've heard that many times.
I've only fired a few guns a few times. I just loaded them then fired.
- Bud
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James,
Excellent summary! One of the best I've ever read!
Regarding our system of checks and balances: I'm not so sure about the supreme court.
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....I would guess, lock the clip (magazine) in place then load that first bullet in the chamber.
Like the Marines say..."When in doubt...Unload the Magazine!"
Hopefully you've locked the magazine
in place before you proceed to unload it all, if necessary.
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
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Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.
Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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Supreme court was set up to decide on issues that are not defined and need to be. Somebody has to have final say (using the constitution as a guide). I am glad we do not elect these justices, they are appointed by the person we elect as president but only when a spot becomes available, like one of them retires (or dies).
I wouldn't want them elected, or to have the ability to influence their decisions in other ways (lobbying etc) or rotated with each administration. I think it's a pretty good setup. What issue do you have with it Pat?
As I mentioned, someone has to have the final say on interpretation of law. Checks and balances are great, but there will always be a need for a final decision. I don't necessarily agree with every decision they make, but I don't think I could come up with a better system.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Pat, I tend to agree with Bob on this one. Because there are nine justices, all serving very long terms, a good cross section of represented. We have Conservative leaning justices, and we have liberal justices, and while they may not agree, they can present differing opinions across the board. They also can not help but influencing one another, over time. I *could* come up with a better system....but no one but me would like it.  Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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The best description I've ever read concerning the Supreme Court:
"Nine scorpions in a bottle"
Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall....
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I had my moment in Flint, but driving past places in Detroit or Chicago and I just said, John, don't go there. But I was running out of gas. Went through 10 red lights, dudes standing round burned out buildings.
Downtown Toronto has had 3 or 4 people shot in the last 10 years, but I meet Americans all the time there, (the wife and I are going up on Sunday), and they all say the same thing.
1. It's so clean.
2. It's so safe.
Oh well.
If they came here it would be better.
I miss the trips to Romeo, Port Huron, and the other 3 places north of there we paraded as a drum corps, until the fortress America thing came to be, and they took you sandwiches, came in the bus with drawn guns, and kept us if we took our cars for 2 to 4 hours to get in.
I'll still go once in a while, but it has to be a week or longer, 'cause I'm not sitting at customs and getting treated like a terrorist. I have a grey beard, and mustache, no hair, and never even had a ticket. In almost 50 years of driving, only been pulled over once. Cop told me my tire was going flat.
I wish someone would make a gps map with colours, green for ok, blue for maybe ok, orange for maybe not and red for never. That would be good. There might be 400,000 people here, but I need no map to tell me you can go out anywhere at night. Toronto, maybe not, stay our of Scarberia.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Video: New User Interface (GUI)
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 60 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until December 31, 2025. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
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