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Joined: Jun 2012
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BIAB 2020 was relatively stable but I continue to have lots of problems with BIAB 2021!
- Some saved songs no longer sound right.
- Mixer problems where changing a style does not completely change the tracks in the mixer. I have had to click the generate button 5 or 6 times in order to get the tracks to actually regenerate properly with a new style.
- Bar Settings problems where songs that worked just fine before with a style change at a certain bar now do not work.
- Changing a track and using its DI option then incorrectly sets that track to DI for any subsequent style changes to DI.
- BIAB sometimes "forgets" my audio driver if I switch away to another program and then come back.
These are all NEW problems that I didn't have before "upgrading"! I have not even tried any of the new features because I can only assume they are marginal as well.
I had an older computer (approximately 3 years old) that was slowing down a bit so I blamed the problems on it during December. Then I went ahead and loaded BIAB 2021 on a brand new fast PC and...same problems!
I have reported these problems in the private testing forum and have no idea whether they are even being addressed. I am beyond frustrated with this product. Honestly, if it were not for the RealTracks I would have dumped it off my computer long ago.
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Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 836
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 836 |
Hi JohnJohnJohn, as our developers work on bug fixes we periodically post build updates to our website here: https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm Please download and install the latest update for the 2021 and see if your issues are fixed. At the moment the latest build is the 822. If you come across any other issues, you can email us at support@pgmusic.com
Best,
Chantelle
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JJJ Chantelle must have missed the fact that you have over 3000 posts. Of course said with a big 
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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JJJ Chantelle must have missed the fact that you have over 3000 posts. Of course said with a big You, my friend, are a troublemaker! I notice Chantelle has 6 posts so maybe this is a new PG person. Hey, at least someone from there responded to my complaint!
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Hi JohnJohnJohn, as our developers work on bug fixes we periodically post build updates to our website here: https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm Please download and install the latest update for the 2021 and see if your issues are fixed. At the moment the latest build is the 822. If you come across any other issues, you can email us at support@pgmusic.com Thanks but I am quite aware of the constant stream of bug fix updates. They just never seem to fix all the things they broke in the latest release and it is way out beyond frustrating. Restoring what we had before should be the very highest priority.
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I think that's called Quality Assurance.
You should never break something that is already working. Any new functionality shouldn't negatively affect the existing code. New code should work.
The beta testers, I am sure, do a good job. I don't know if they are directed to test certain functions only, or if they have leeway to look for broken code. Do they ever test for problems that existed in the previous release?
PGM doesn't seem to have an effective process for delivering a clean product, which is why we have so many fixes in each build. You have to accept with a product like BIAB/RealBand there will be some untested combinations of features. Much of that must be due to the legacy code. If it wasn't developed or previously modified in a controlled way, new changes will eventually clash with old code.
PGM's approach seems to be discount the new release (e.g. 2021) cost and let the users sort out the bugs. If you don't like this, you can always buy the BIAB at full cost in June when most of the bugs will have been fixed.
The other thing is that most of the errors seem to be related, not surprisingly, to the new code, or to the non-traditional BIAB functionality as a backing track generator. The basic program seems to be fine since it really hasn't changed since day 1.
I still think that PGM should be more forthcoming with their release approach. We should expect a working, essentially bug free product with each release. Today, we often have to do our own regression testing to ensure that product still works for us.
BIAB for Windows Version 2019 (643)
Windows 10 (1909)
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16
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BIAB is such a good software that it deserves to be completely rewritten every 3-5 years.
These are the main reasons:
https://medium.com/@nirespire/why-i-think-software-should-be-rewritten-every-three-years-7fcc29210ca5
Best Regards
Angelo
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For what its worth, and I've said this before, the more you try to add 'new and requested' features to BIAB, the more complicated it gets. hence the fact that this version with changes to the mixer and utility tracks for example seems to have caused so many problems and issues.
it's not a DAW. and when i made that point previously, it was pointed out that other 'auto accompaniment' packages had features BIAB didn't. GIMP doesn't match photoshop exactly yet its still a perfectly usable program for photo editing - just different.
tweaking BIAB to add DAW-like features or facilities people like on other programs seems almost to ignore BIAB strengths and why it's good at what it does. It doesn't need to 'improve'. so i agree that fixing long term bugs and issues like the limit on time signatures would be more welcomed by the community.
after all, i haven't seen anything 'new' in 2021 BIAB that we can't do in RB or a fully fledged DAW. and of course you can use the BIAB plugin - the best 'new' feature of recent years - in a DAW.
regardless of wishlists, the strength of BIAB is RealTracks. That alone sets BIAB apart so chasing DAW features and other programs isn't necessary.
i upgraded to 2021 and most of the issues have passed me by because i rough out a song in BIAB then do the heavy lifting in RB.
would other forumites agree that fixing the time signatures issue, breaking the 265 bar barrier, fixing the bug that means RealTracks don't always respond to bar based key changes (Andrew agreed that needed fixing) and other long term issues would be preferable?
BIAB is a great program. so maybe now's the time to stop adding bells and whistles and consolidate the program working on its strengths?
BIAB is essential to my music making. i'm grateful to PG Music for the creative possibilities it gives me. i don't mean this as a rant - its a celebration of what BIAB does without needing extra 'features'.
Last edited by Bob Calver; 02/28/21 12:16 AM.
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...
would other forumites agree that fixing the time signatures issue, breaking the 265 bar barrier, fixing the bug that means RealTracks don't always respond to bar based key changes (Andrew agreed that needed fixing) and other long term issues would be preferable? Everything that was mentioned is definitely worthy of consideration. Fixing known, existing issues, and satisfying multiple requests for better functionality (255 bar limit, etc) is far preferable than adding 50 new features each release. However, not everyone has this focus. I would rather see 50 bug fixes than 50 new features, any day. YMMV.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Bob 2 post up is right on, he gets it. I am so tired of the endless arguments over making BiaB something it is not. That goes for the plugin as well.
This basically called regression bugs. Where a new feature of option causes an old problem to resurface. This is the very reason that myself and a few others resisted some of the new ideas floated around. Not because we want to halt or block forward development, but rather to allow the program to breath and catch up. Every year folks ask for more changes. That might be easy in a program that does just a few things but BiaB is deep and rich with decades of features and layered capabilities.
I know I will draw criticism for saying this, I know this cause every time I have in the past I have had to put up with scathing remarks, and name calling. but I really don’t care! Why you say because I am right. In the past folks have criticized PGM for living in the past, maybe they are partially right. But just maybe with a deeply developed program that has been upgraded for more than 3 decades at this point adding a bunch of new features has become very complicated and difficult. So if you want to flame me for speaking out go right ahead, it will fall on deaf ears. Not because I’m some “old guard” but because I right. Allow PGM to fix the issues, and bear in mind it may take time. Don’t totally blame them as remember it was the users who to some degree demanded some of these features that cause regression. To PGM, guys you do an great job each year, but really take a look and see that it may be time to focus on stabilizing and make the annual new stuff RT and content.
How about 45 bugs smashed and 5 new features and 202 new RTs, 50 new RDs and some cool new MSTs etc. just sayin’
As they say round these parts “capese!”
Last edited by Rob Helms; 02/28/21 04:14 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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...
would other forumites agree that fixing the time signatures issue, breaking the 265 bar barrier, fixing the bug that means RealTracks don't always respond to bar based key changes (Andrew agreed that needed fixing) and other long term issues would be preferable? Everything that was mentioned is definitely worthy of consideration. Fixing known, existing issues, and satisfying multiple requests for better functionality (255 bar limit, etc) is far preferable than adding 50 new features each release. However, not everyone has this focus. I would rather see 50 bug fixes than 50 new features, any day. YMMV.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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This is not a new idea. I remember at least twenty years ago (maybe even in the prior forum) suggesting it would be good to take one year to fix major limitations rather than add new features. Core functionality, I called it.
255 measures. Odd time signatures including cut time. Enharmonic notes such as F flat. Maj7(#11), in jazz fake books but requiring Maj9(#11) in BIAB. NA for chords. Eight per bar. Split out all the chord types now called a 2 chord. Anything that didn’t work, especially if it were advertised or implied. Core functionality.
This year, as an example of what might have caused more difficulty this year than in the past, PG Music gave us Utility Tracks and enhanced the mixer. Yay. But, immediately there were calls for feature enhancements. I’m sure I gave some a +1. I shouldn’t have. I got excited and greedy. I think we should have let the developers work at the pace they had planned.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Journeyman
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On average when I read the posts on this forum there are probably not more than twenty users who chip in with ideas and workarounds.
Although PGMusic has a cracking good piece of software, namely BIAB, their main focus is to sell the latest version to the thousands of new customers out there, and users who are happy just to "carry on", that's what businesses do they need to make a profit, so selling BIAB with hundreds of new features and bells and whistles attracts new users.
There are many bugs in the software that just keep getting pushed under the rug year after year and many "wishlist" ideas that will never see the light of day.
So with the twenty or so genuine users against the thousands of potential new customers bringing in cash I won't be holding my breath for the next release!
Brian Cadoret
BIAB 2025 Pro build 1125e with BIAB2023 UltraPAK . Samplitude Pro X4 Suite. Mixcraft 10.5 Pro Studio
Focusrite 2i2 Scarlett
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3470 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz
Installed RAM 8.00 GB
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I agree with Matt's thinking on calls for future enhancements.
I am now limiting my entries to the Wishlist Forum to things (no matter how trivial) that need fixing.
LLOYD S
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Brian, I think it's far more than twenty, especially if you go back 25 years.
I thought twenty years ago that adding new features while leaving shortcomings would cause the product to collapse at some point. Obviously I was quite wrong.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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On average when I read the posts on this forum there are probably not more than twenty users who chip in with ideas and workarounds.
Although PGMusic has a cracking good piece of software, namely BIAB, their main focus is to sell the latest version to the thousands of new customers out there, and users who are happy just to "carry on", that's what businesses do they need to make a profit, so selling BIAB with hundreds of new features and bells and whistles attracts new users.
There are many bugs in the software that just keep getting pushed under the rug year after year and many "wishlist" ideas that will never see the light of day.
So with the twenty or so genuine users against the thousands of potential new customers bringing in cash I won't be holding my breath for the next release!
You might be correct but I wonder how many potential users were put off with the first VSTi version? I know for a fact that some people are really put off by the GUI and the menu system. Many are put off by the fact that a 6/8 time signature transformed in a 4/4 time signature when transferred to their DAW. Some are put off by the fact that the last two upgrades had a ton of bugs. Those of us who have used BiaB for years work around these handicaps but new potential customers can be put off by them. Especially in the MIDI world where there is a lot of competition out there, some much better then BiaB. If you use RTs then BiaB/RB are your only choices, for now. I know that RTs are the cash cow for PGM but I firmly believe correcting the above statements would greatly improve their cash flow. YMMV
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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as i've said before you don't need new features when you can say 'thousands of hours of top musicians playing live what you want in any key and any chord progression'
RealTracks are the wonderful thing about BIAB that will attract new users.
much better than 'now with utility tracks'.
we were all new users once and we bought BIAB for what it could do - not for 'new features' over last year's program which we didn't know anything about.
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No it’s not a bug.
EDIT: it looks like the post I replied to was deleted.
The check in the program does not include beta versions, and PG Music considers the most recent release a beta. If you check on the website, you will see Build 822.
Last edited by Matt Finley; 02/28/21 01:39 PM.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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The beta testers, I am sure, do a good job. There is no beta test here, at least not for recent releases. A few days to a week is not even remotely enough time to properly test a piece of software as complex as this. I def do not blame the beta testers. PGM's approach seems to be discount the new release (e.g. 2021) cost and let the users sort out the bugs. Yup. And it works for us experienced users as Mario said we know how to work around stuff. I gotta believe new customers suffer with this a lot more. We should expect a working, essentially bug free product with each release. Today, we often have to do our own regression testing to ensure that product still works for us. Agreed. There are bugs that come up that should have been caught and fixed before it was even released to the "beta test" stage. Each year I give serious consideration to simply skipping the upgrade, freezing my installation of BIAB and foregoing the cool new RealTracks! That is becoming more and more attractive as a future option. At least that way I won't degrade my BIAB experience from December until June of the following year.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Enthusiast
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IMHO, getting eighth-note chords and/or quarter-note and eighth-note triplets in a bar would be INCREDIBLE. And yes, I know about the workarounds and the work Mr. Norton has done. And, all the little bells and whistles added over the years. This has been discussed ad nauseum. I've owned a studio since 1989, and biab is the best single tool I've ever purchased to produce the foundation of a song properly. But, has focus been lost on strengthening BASIC necessities and fundamentals of music? Asking for a friend...
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Holiday Weekend Hours
Our Customer Service hours this weekend are as follows:
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Thank you!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
Update to RealBand® 2025 Build 5 Windows Today!
Already using RealBand® 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 5 now from our Support Page to ensure you have the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Get the latest update today!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
First-time packages start at only $49. Already a PowerTracks Pro Audio user? Upgrade for as little as $29!
www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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